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Post by darthchinchi on Jun 26, 2017 14:28:23 GMT
Hooray. I figured out how to share and remove my imgur post from the publiv eye - lol So here we go. I'll try and add both english and scientific names, and just for the fun of it, the danish ones too. Some of them I have a hard time finding the correct english term for, as they appear to have several common names. Dianthus caryophyllus - Pink (?) - Nellike (I did a bit of research and it looks like all Dianthus species we can buy, have edible leaves) As you might notice, I have a thing with these. Theres so many different types of these out there. Thymus spp - Thyme - Timian Fragaria - Strawberry - Jordbær i.imgur.com/kkAfsC0.jpg[/img]
Pocaceae - Grasses - Græsser (mostly wild types I just didn't remove) With feverfew ( Tanacetum parthenium - Matrem) in the background. Gift from my mum. Ground elder trying to eradicate it. Bought. Salvia - Sage - Salvie To be honest, not 100% sure about this one. But I think the flowers are safe. The leafs have near no smell to it. And this is what I collected yesterday for evening forage: Rosa - Rose - Rose (petals). Trifolium repens - White clover - Hvid kløver. Equisetaceae arvense - Horsetail - Ager-padderok. Prunella vulgaris - Self-Heal - Almindelig brunelle. Galium aparine - Cleavers (?) - Burresnerre. Akkuaria petiolata - Garlic mustard - Løgkarse. Levisticum officinale - Lovage - Løvstikke. Taraxacum spp - Dandelion - Mælkebøtte. Dianthus caryophyllus - Pink - Nellike (petals). Rumex - Dock/Sorrel - Skræppe. Aegopodium podagraria - Ground elder - Skvalderkål. Salvia - Sage - Salvie (flower). Thymus - Thyme - Timian. Grasses I did want better pictures, but one of the chinchillas felt I was too slow moving so I had to take a quick picture and feed them
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 27, 2017 15:14:20 GMT
Very nice! Are you feeding all of these to the chins?
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Post by darthchinchi on Jun 27, 2017 20:23:38 GMT
Yes, I just go out and pick what ever I feel like Most of it is bought as feeder plants for them. Not using the pretty bought grasses this year though. I want them to get a bit bigger before harvesting.
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Post by polly on Jun 28, 2017 8:11:31 GMT
I cannot believe that moderators will condone feeding chinchillas fresh produce from the garden despite all the previous warnings given. I am now permanently through with this forum, and totally disgusted.
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Post by ntg on Jun 28, 2017 8:37:57 GMT
Apologies polly, but I don't recall any warnings about chinchillas and feeding fresh food items, perhaps you could tell us why it isn't recommended? As all our moderators are solely degu-keepers where fresh is best where possible for dental wear and nutrients etc. As far as I can tell from a degu standpoint, darthchinchi has been sensible as far as introducing fresh items to her chins, checking every new species before it's given and giving in small amounts at first. Is the general chin community against fresh feeding or variety feeding in general? Why is that/can you link me to somewhere that clearly states all the reasons against it? As I'm curious as to why chinchillas are so sensitive to different food items.
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Post by darthchinchi on Jun 28, 2017 9:17:06 GMT
The community in the UK and the US is against fresh feeding for chinchillas. But in Europe it's not uncommon at all. It's normal on Germany. But a lot of English and American groups on Facebook forbid the topic and kick people out if they speak about it. I even speak with furfarmers who give their animals fresh from time to time, and people do not experience it as a problem. So I am aware there's communities out there who do not condone this. Most of us who feed fresh do not mind others do not choose to do this. But a lot of those who do not fees fresh think fresh will kill or make the animals sick. This is simply not true. Some people also offer their chinnies insects as they are known to occasionally eat insects and even birds eggs in the wild (they are opportunistic). There really is no scientific evidence to back up the claim it's a problem. Wrong feeding is a problem yes, but you can just as well feed a chinchilla wrongly on pellets and hay as you can on fresh food, even though some claim this not to be true. Chinchillas are made to eat fresh food, but I'm the dryer range. That's why you shouldn't give too many young greens. It's best to offer plants with less water in them. But actually chinchillas may get their primary source of water from succulents in the wild. They also eat roots and seeds/nuts, so again, no need to worry. I am also aware there's a notion that pet chinchillas and wild chinchillas can't be compared directly, as people think it's different animals/species do to "improvements" via breeding. This is not how evolution works though. Their digestion track haven't changed. They are still the same. If you feed an animal only on a pellet bases fees and hay, it does not cultivate the microorganisms in it's appendix, needed to digest greens. That's why we have to start out slowly when introducing new food items. On the other hand, when you give your chinchilla a diverse diet you will find it doesn't tend to react as badly to new food items as one only living in pellets and hay. They can suffer from bloat if would go from no water in the feed to only greens, again this is why we do it slowly. If you do not feel like feeding this way this is 100% up to you and you will have nice and healthy animals I am sure. But that's not the same as a different feeding method will kill them. My animals are healthy too
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Post by polly on Jun 28, 2017 9:18:14 GMT
I'm not getting any further involved. Chins should never be fed any fresh food due to their digestive systems not being able to cope, usually resulting in bloat and a slow, painful death. Molett has continued to condone fresh food for chinchillas, even after a lengthy explanation to her of why they should not be given it. Molett does not own chins, nor does she have the experience of them to even comment. Any newcomer to chins would read this, think it is ok, and probably end up killing their chins.
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Post by darthchinchi on Jun 28, 2017 9:26:44 GMT
I've had chinchillas for 20 years now. I know a lot of people who feed this way, with years of experience. We do not agree on feeding, but this is not dangerous as long as you do a propoer slow intro I explained above why you might experience problems with bloat and the like. It has to do with faulty I troduction. Just as seeds and nuts won't cause fatty liver disease as long as you vary their diet. Obecity has been a problem due to wrong feeding yes. But we went from one extreme to the other. From feeding too much to not feeding it at all. There's a middle ground. Chinchillas are made to eat fresh greens. Not greens with a high water content, but that's why you do not give them the fresh shoots. Roota in plants are notorious for holding on to water especially desert plants have a tendency to do this, and chinchillas eat the roots of desert plants. They even eat cactus fruits if given the chance and sukkulents. They eat a lot of flowers and stems from flowers as well. Basically I'm just helping my chinchillas cultivate the microorganisms needed to digest the food they are made for.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 28, 2017 9:55:37 GMT
Thank you, Darthchinchi, for giving such a well considered response. Molett has continued to condone fresh food for chinchillas, even after a lengthy explanation to her of why they should not be given it. Polly, I am aware and sympathetic that you had a terrible experience with one chinchilla who had previously been fed fresh fodder. I am not aware that you have given any science based explanation of why chinchillas should never be fed fresh fodder. I have always taken on board your comments and recommended that fresh forage should be introduced slowly and carefully to avoid the risk of bloat and to give the gut flora time to adapt. Please see this thread: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/20669/chinchilla-ownersI have always made clear I do not own and have never owned chinchillas. I have once or twice attempted to open up discussion of chinchilla feeding because the collective experience on the forum of the revolution in degu feeding was so universally positive with people and their degus in terms of health and enrichment. I wanted to open up this concept to chinchilla keepers having checked extensively there was a similar movement in Germany with a lot of experience doing the same thing for chinchillas with excellent results. I wanted to provide an opportunity for chinchilla owners to have a rational, open discussion. All over the English speaking internet chinchilla owners are not able to speak freely about diet because of illogical accusations of mistreatment with no scientific basis. I am aware that this is a problem for chinchilla keepers because individuals on this forum have told me it is. I believe it is my responsibility as moderator to provide a safe place for rational discussion on any chinchilla or degu topic. Chinchillas are herbivores, they are designed to eat plants. The plants should be well chosen and introduced carefully and the chinchillas monitored carefully if you wish to try it. There are potential benefits.
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Post by polly on Jun 28, 2017 10:22:41 GMT
I want no more of this, and I do not share your views. You are potentially putting many chinchillas in danger and I want nothing more to do with this forum. When the negative posts start coming in, on your own head be it.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 28, 2017 10:38:28 GMT
I would also like to mention that this thread and others made by Darthchinchi are simply a forum member sharing what they are doing, which is what a discussion forum is for. No recommendations have been made.
Polly, likewise you are perfectly free to disagree and disapprove, but on this forum you cannot claim 'danger' without evidence or explanation in order to attempt to diminish another member's free speech.
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Post by polly on Jun 28, 2017 10:52:56 GMT
Please cancel my account.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 28, 2017 12:33:14 GMT
I'm sorry you feel this way, but if you would like to delete your account go to your profile, click on edit profile, then settings and then at the bottom of the page there is an option to delete your account.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 14:28:26 GMT
Hi polly I don't believe we've met! It's nice to meet you. I'd love to know more about chinchillas and perhaps if you decide to stay, you could make your own thread with the sources you use that back up your beliefs on chinchilla diets? It would be lovely if everyone could sort of collect and share data the way we did with degus, which allowed us to learn so much and give them a much happier life by being able to feed other things besides nuggets and hay. We are all here to learn and discuss and try things. We would never advocate anything dangerous, we haven't advocated anything here at all. I think as chinchillas grow in popularity we will see the same thing happen with them, in terms of dietary changes, as we did with degus. They are relatives after all and both are herbivores. But things will not take a step forward if nothing is ever tried and the same very basic things are repeated over and over because people are scared and nobody is researching. I think if someone fed a degu loads of fresh forage without giving them time to adapt they'd become very ill. Just like they would if they'd never been fed nuggets before, instead a SAB diet, and you took their SAB diet off them and made them eat just nuggets, I imagine they'd become terribly ill. Bloat can happen to all animals. It's about introducing anything you give, slowly, and not feeding it solely. I'm sad to have met you on such a thread as this has always been such a lovely and kind community. Being angry with each other won't help progress research in to chinchilla diets, instead everyone will be too scared! It would be nice if you could stay and discuss your findings in an appropriate manner, in your own chinchilla research thread?
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Post by polly on Jun 28, 2017 14:40:15 GMT
I requested that my account be cancelled. I'm not prepared to give any more information to this forum, as it is systematically ignored.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 14:41:24 GMT
polly, moletteuk explained to you how to delete your account. I've never witnessed anyone's information being ignored, but I'm sorry you feel that way.
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Post by Maravilla on Jun 30, 2017 18:45:29 GMT
What do chinchillas eat in the wild as there are no pellets available?
I suppose they eat what they find: fresh green...
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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 8, 2017 9:05:12 GMT
To get things back on track. Yesterday: Dandelion, ground elder, sorrel, strawberry leaves, lovage The lovage really stinks up your fingers lol. This portion is for one of my duos Thursday: Hazel, white clover, rose petals, grasses, dandelion, heal-all, common daisy, plantain This is also for a duo. They especially enjoyed the hazel branches and leaves. I'm leaving the nuts on for the squirrels.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 8, 2017 21:00:34 GMT
WOW! Looks totally amazing! Makes me wish I had the dietary capability to eat all those. They look so alive!
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Post by moletteuk on Jul 9, 2017 11:09:10 GMT
You'd be amazed how many plants we can eat! Sorrel tastes pretty good in small amounts.
What do you mean by 'heal-all'?
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