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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 26, 2017 8:35:30 GMT
For me it's a calculated risk. Looking at how they behaved I was willing to take the chance as he wasnt persistant and she told him off if he got too near. No problems when kits were around at all as he helped out whit them as soon as any got near him.
I generally remove dad for aboyt 5 days and then put him back in as he's a real big help with the kits. Some dads even play with the kits.
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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 31, 2017 16:07:01 GMT
Dad and kits enjoying some fresh greens. A farmer I follow on FB just had a post about milk pellets. She said they help with larger litters. Still may have to find an other mum for one or mor with larger litters (5+). And then she mentions litters with 4 thriving if they are offered a small amount of milk pellets from day one. This got me thinking... Farmers do seem to have problems with larger litters than 3. I did experience problems when all 5 were with mum but no problem as soon as one was removed. I do not offer milk pellets but a variation in diet. I may just end up asking the farmer I know, who took in 5th kid, if she would mind doing an experiment for me. Im thinking I will provide different types of dried forage she can offer females with 4+ litters and see of she sees an improvement
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Kits
Aug 1, 2017 12:55:08 GMT
Post by moletteuk on Aug 1, 2017 12:55:08 GMT
The kits have grown so much! They look great How long do they take to get to full adult size? I supppose forage would provide the extra minerals but is going to offer limited calories and fat compared to milk. ...Are the milk pellets for the babies or for the mum? I'd never heard of milk pellets, but when I google it I'm seeing milk pellets for horses, is that the same product or do you have access to small animal milk pellets?
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 1, 2017 13:00:16 GMT
Thinking about it, if it's always a problem for them to feed larger litters, then this suggests an issue with diet to me. I can't help wondering what kind of short term diet changes that wild chinchillas might make to cope and produce enough milk. I know that at certain times of year degus will eat a much higher fat diet while a particular food source (coquitos) is available. I know fat can be a long term issue for chins, but I wonder if they could cope with (and benefit from) significantly higher fat in the diet while they have massive requirements to produce enough fat to go into their milk? I'm only thinking aloud btw.
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Post by darthchinchi on Aug 1, 2017 13:08:58 GMT
Not quite sure what milk pellets is. It is given to females with kits. The kids don't start eating before 1-2 weeks. If the pellets help with milk production it would be fun to se if the same benifits could be gained via forage. Oh boy... Full size. 1-2 years. Some say they bloom between 3-5 and gain again. I personally think it's fat
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Kits
Aug 4, 2017 9:51:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by darthchinchi on Aug 4, 2017 9:51:03 GMT
As someone had it out for me for letting the male stay with female and kits, I thought I might as well elaborate. This is not a "german" thing, as someone tried to make it out to. This is normal practice. Some breeders let their chinchillas stay together all the time to let them figure it out by them selves. If they keep on getting one litter after the other, the breeder will normally intervene and take the male out. A breed back is when the male breeds with the female directly after giving birth. It doesn't happen every time if the male is left in. It happens 25% of the time the male is left with the female. In the fur industry this is sought after. And no, they do not see a higher mortality rate when practicing this. It does take a tole on mum to both nurse kits and be pregnant. And this is why some say it should not be done. Normally I would agree with this. I leave the male in depending on the individual couple and the kits they get. Dad is a vital part of raising the kits. This can be seen in footage of wild chinchillas as well. Dad helps out with the kits when looking for forage (join the Save the Wild Chinchillas group on FB to see. I'm not allowed to share the videos as they are still doing research . So when we got this massive litter of 5 I descided dad could stay in, as he showed relatively little interest in mum and helped out with the kits as soon as he saw any. There is a risk. It is hard for her with 4 kits and it is kind of a big deal if she turns out to be pregnant again. My reasoning for leaving him in was how little he tries to get to mum + how much he took care of the kits. He didn't "loose his mind" when ever he saw mum, as some male chinchillas tend to do. Not once was I scared of him trampling the kits as he took suck good care of them. Some places will remove mum from dad until the kits are weaned. I do not do this! I will remove dad for about 5 days after birth. After this period he can't jump her for another 28 days approximately. I don't know if the suckling might play a part here as it does with humans and maybe make her skip periods. When doing this with removing dad for a 5 day period I will get 1 litter a year with that pair. This is not a new way of doing things. This is not some crazy thing where there is a problem with high mortality. Other places does things differently. But breed backs are done here, had been for as long as I've known (at least 20 years and we are taking thousands of females), and we just do not see the problems someone was trying to bash me for. As always other places may do things differently. I personally prefer when dad helps out as they get to do their natural behaviour.
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Kits
Aug 4, 2017 14:13:39 GMT
Post by moletteuk on Aug 4, 2017 14:13:39 GMT
It sounds like there are lots of things to take into consideration including percentage likelihoods of the pregnancy and potential losses of kits in this size litter with no father present. I remember thinking at the time just after they were born that it seemed like a difficult decision to make.
We used to say it was OK to take male degus out after the birth for 3 or 4 days and then put him back in and then remove again some time before the second oestrus, but when you add in the safety margin on timing of the oestrus, we weighed it up and mostly started recommending complete removal of dad. But in degus it is mostly an accidental birth and dad needs to removed permanently anyway, so different situation.
I've always thought it a strange phenomenon that small mammals have a fertile period immediately after birth. I wonder what the reason is, biological survival -wise. I wonder if it is to take advantage of the likelihood of the male being present to help with babies - get pregnant while he is there. But if they live in family groups he should be there all the time??
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Post by darthchinchi on Aug 4, 2017 14:36:03 GMT
Most rodents have a very short lifespan. This makes it kind of logical to get as many litters in the short period of time you have, as possible. Also when taking into consideration how many of their young that doesn't make it to adulthood because of predation.
In the wild they only have kits once a year. The cycle is about 28 days and they are pregnant for about 111 days (128 for C. brevicaudata). That's a fairly long time for a rodent to be pregnant if it only has 1-2 kits on average. They stille experience predation, illness, accidents and so on where kits don't make it to adulthood and they do need to at least keep the number on what it is.
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Post by darthchinchi on Mar 10, 2018 7:46:44 GMT
Yesterday the female had a new litter of 3. That's about 8 months since the big litter, even though I left dad in. This time around dad really wanted to jump her, so he has been removed from the cage.
It's kind of weird. Haven't had more than 1-2 kits since 2007, but with this male it's 3+ And the male really shouldn't have anything to say about the number of kits.
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Post by zenaida on Mar 10, 2018 12:59:28 GMT
Yesterday the female had a new litter of 3. That's about 8 months since the big litter, even though I left dad in. This time around dad really wanted to jump her, so he has been removed from the cage. It's kind of weird. Haven't had more than 1-2 kits since 2007, but with this male it's 3+ And the male really shouldn't have anything to say about the number of kits. This post is useless without pictures! Seriously though, congrats on the new litter!
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Post by darthchinchi on Mar 10, 2018 14:36:25 GMT
Haha. Well, as I don't really want to promote breeding on here as most on here do not see it as a positive, it was more of an update on what had happened since the last litter. But I will do as the master says and add pictures - just not today
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Post by darthchinchi on Mar 27, 2018 20:50:59 GMT
And finally, here we go This is Alf. I love his little paw
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Kits
Mar 27, 2018 20:52:33 GMT
Post by darthchinchi on Mar 27, 2018 20:52:33 GMT
One of my friends really wants this litter. I really want her to have this litter (free of charge), but her husband doesn't want her to have chinchillas again. I've offered them for free + cage and wheel for them to run in. But no, not getting them. So I have to put them up for sale -_-
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Post by ntg on Mar 27, 2018 21:20:55 GMT
Squee! How much to transport them into the UK? Say... Scotland... She could always smuggle them into the house and then tell her husband that it's far too late to give them up
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 23:38:38 GMT
And finally, here we go This is Alf. I love his little paw Oh Darth I want him!!! My Alfie would love him 😍
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Post by darthchinchi on Mar 28, 2018 5:23:24 GMT
I know. He's so cute ^_^ He's a bit of a shy boy. Hes bigger brother (who looks exactly like him, he's just a bit bigger), won't sit still so I got next to no pictures of him. And every time he posed, his dad hopped in front of the camera... I think dad knows how handsome he is, and he wants me to only take pictures of him. The last one I can get pictures of. He's just a mommas boy. And not the same colour so he's easy to tell apart from the other two. About my friend, we did actually talk about me just dropping off the animals at her house. Then hubby can't really say no
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Kits
Mar 28, 2018 5:25:15 GMT
Post by darthchinchi on Mar 28, 2018 5:25:15 GMT
Oh, and NTG - if you can find the transport and pay for it, you can have them
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Kits
Mar 28, 2018 10:58:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by ntg on Mar 28, 2018 10:58:18 GMT
Oh, and NTG - if you can find the transport and pay for it, you can have them Oof do not tempt my OH with an offer like that he's obsessed with chins at the moment. Seems to think they'll be more cuddly than the degus despite me telling him they probably won't be
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Post by darthchinchi on Mar 28, 2018 12:05:11 GMT
The little paw guy is quite cuddly. The beige one even more so. Larger white one - not so much
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 13:15:33 GMT
The little paw guy is quite cuddly. The beige one even more so. Larger white one - not so much I’ll have the beige one!!!! 🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️🙋🏼♀️
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