Pulla's third cagemate (hopefully)

[teemu]

Well, we had a bit of an early start with this whole cage introduction thing. I was handling Pipari, and she just decided that her time had come and leapt up into Pulla's cage (I had the door open because they like to socialize like that, like I've mentioned). I figured that if this was really how they wanted to do it, I would at least give them a moment while I reached for the emergency gloves in case it went bad.

After some confusion, they settled into just grooming each other and huddling together for about fifteen minutes. At that point I removed the divider, both to see how the other side would work, and because it would have been much easier to handle it if the situation grew alarming (since I could get both of my hands in there easily, from the two doors). They went around each other's side a bit, explored, ate some seeds together and did not really show any signs of being bothered over it or even getting agitated in any way. As if they both were perfectly clear on the idea that they're supposed to share the space. I did put the divider back in and usher them back into their own sides eventually. No issues afterwards either, they just went back to doing normal stuff.

I do agree that it's best to start with shorter whiles (especially since it's evening and they're a bit tired already), even if it did look very good. Still, it's probably safe to say that territoriality won't be an issue! Pipari also acted really calmly in the familiar space (even if half of it had an unfamiliar layout, she still seemed very comfortable since it's just more of the cage and the stuff there is familiar to her as a whole). It's actually really stark how differently she acted in the cage. No panic-excitement at all. And Pulla was, as always, totally fine as long as everyone plays nice. It was also very easy to separate them while they were cuddling, and both just ran over as soon as they heard the seed box, so they did not seem to even be tense over it.

(I think it's actually a good sign that they did not get worked up after getting separated either? They're taking things calmly and without stress.)

[teemu]

We've now been trying things out for two days, and it looks promising, and does not show any signs of breaking down. I think it will take some amount of time before they are at the point where I can just leave the divider off and go to bed or something, but those 20 minute periods we have done to slowly get them used to things have not had any actual clashes or other outright problems.

The main thing we need to navigate is still the same, i.e. Pipari's somewhat incoherent and uncoordinated behavior. During all three days, the shared time has been quite similar. They move around, they come together to socialize, and at some point Pulla starts becoming somewhat overwhelmed by Pipari's antics. I have not seen a single indication of dominance struggles or actual fighting (both seem absolutely fine with the idea of the other existing, basically). The main hangup is that Pipari sometimes gets worked up, and does not really seem to recognize personal space at all. She will literally climb over Pulla, or just push him aside as if he was any random cage furnishing that's in the way, or something similar. And sometimes she just... gets kinda worked up and does weird things. Today she suddenly just leapt in the air and almost hit Pulla (it obviously wasn't an attack lunge or anything, she basically ignored Pulla and kept going, she just seemed to momentarily kind of lose control out of excitement), and sometimes she keeps following him and trying to push her nose into him (again, it does not look aggressive at all, and I don't think she is trying to harass him) or similar.

They are very pleased to meet each time, and I do think I see some improvement in how Pipari is acting (she did not try to keep grabbing at him today, for example), but it's obviously just a bit of a challenge for them to make it work still. I think at this point it'd be basically 50/50 whether they'd just settle into normal life or start having issues if I just left them in the cage together, but I don't really want to force it. I think we basically need to wait until Pipari is more used to this stuff (she is very calm in her everyday activities after all), and until Pulla develops a bit more tolerance and gets a bit more used to the idea that Pipari is a bit strange but isn't trying to be mean.

A very good sign is that Pipari seems to not care if Pulla gets a bit annoyed. He has slapped her a couple of times with a shove of hand if she just keeps running around him, and she does not really seem to mind at all. In the kitchen, Pulla actually tried to box with her once, and she did (I guess instinctively), box back, but lost all interest as soon as Pulla stopped. I'm quite astonished that she has developed like this.

Last night, Pipari had a nightmare and started screaming really loud in her nest. She climbed out, all scared, and Pulla immediately ran over to see what was happening. When I lifted him to her side, she seemed to immediately calm down, and they cuddled together for some time. It's really a shame that I can't yet totally trust that they'd make it work if left together (and I think it's better to not ever get into a point where it even starts to go wrong), since they obviously are happy for each other's presence as such.

[moletteuk]

I'm so pleased about this, so encouraging

I totally agree that carrying on doing meets is the best way forward as things stand. It's much less stressful to get to know somebody gradually, especially if there are some odd things about them that you need to get used to. Plus, I think it's worth continuing to go slow to make sure that dominance won't become an issue once they get over the novelty and gain confidence.

[teemu]

One thing I'm considering is whether I should try putting Pulla into Pipari's cage. I'm pretty sure that even in the cage, part of Pipari's incoherent moments is that there's just too much sensory input for her when she's trying to explore the cage and also focusing on Pulla (and it doesn't seem to be something that can be handled with just some alone time in the undivided cage). I'm sure that that will go down with time as well, but it could well be that she'd have a much easier time managing if it was just Pulla in a familiar setting.

The risk is, of course, that Pulla feels trapped and feels like he's been cornered in a weird place. He does recognize his own cage, I'm sure, but it's still not his territory right now. I could of course try to provide support and be there in case he wants to climb out or something like that, but I'm worried it could still make for a negative experience.

I also think I should try to look for information on animals with these types of challenges. Especially now that I see Pipari interacting with another degu in a non-aggressive manner, her issues and the way they're limiting her seem really apparent. I really want to know if there is something I can do to help her and make things easier for her. It's of course not entirely trivial to find good info on this kind of subject, but I'll be trying to look into it. Maybe, if I actually do find something that is of use, it will be of use to others as well.

[teemu]

Today went quite well, and they were quite casual about being in the same cage. After the initial courtesies, they kind of just forgot about each other for a while and did whatever. Pipari ran in Pulla's wheel (it's the exact same wheel, but I guess it's just better since it's someone else's), and Pulla hassled me because he kept wanting to run to my shoulder and back. It didn't feel like they were ignoring each other though, and they did meet up again every now and then. Pulla also seemed to put up with Pipari a *lot* better today. He spun around to face her less, and even allowed Pipari to groom and touch his back and flanks, which has been frankly unprecedented in all these interactions with all these degus now. I think he's really starting to accept that she isn't intrested in bullying him.

We had a bit of casual normal cage drama when I offered them seeds from the box, and Pipari kept trying to hog them by siddling into Pulla and complaining. Very mild, very much what you see with all groups. Pulla seemed a bit spooked, but since he already had a seed and Pipari did not seem to be doing anything to him, he just waddled a few steps away and ate his snacks there. I think the good thing here is that we've seen interactions where each has shown some low level of assertiveness or normal squabbling, and the other has not made a problem out of it. That's just something that will happen in a cage, so it's very good that they are at the stage where it's not a problem.

One thing I've noticed is that it is better to do these intros later on during the evening, since I guess they're a bit less energetic at that point and Pipari isn't as zoomy, so they actually end up interacting properly.

(This reaction from Pulla to Pipari's hogging is very reminiscent of his time with Posso. Posso would often just push him out of the way or tell him off, and Pulla reacted very similarly back then: a bit spooked, but totally fine since nothing else happens and the other degu is not even interested in him.)

[teemu]

Really long shared cage time today, multiple hours over the evening. No conflict at all, and Pipari is totally fine with it. I think Pulla still needs some time before he's comfortable just permanently cohabiting, but I think the goal is within sight. I almost debated just leaving the divider off until I go to bed, but Pulla seemed a bit too tense about it, so I decided that he should take time off now.

It kind of seems like Pulla is acting very introverted. After the initial meetings and grooming and all that, he basically just settles into a corner and sits there, seemingly trying to keep out of Pipari's way. Alternatively he just wants to climb onto my shoulder to huddle. I think he's a bit intimidated because Pipari is going around the cage like a hurricane, pushing stuff around, digging up hay, gnawing at everything etc. At first I thought he actually did not want to be there, but when I tried putting the divider back, he immediately started asking to be let back through. I think he'd just rather hang around and not get in the way. He is always very careful and conflict-averse, so a really energetic younger degu might just feel quite hard to manage. He sometimes even started changing places when Pipari started coming after him (to socialize), but was happy to do so when she actually caught up to him. So there's a bit of mixed messages there, certainly, but I think it's just nerves from being alone for a long time, plus bad experiences in the past. When he was with Posso, he also preferred to let her handle things while he just sat back.

Pipari has been really enjoying all this. All this time I've thought that she's very volatile and very easily stressed, but she just seems very excited and interested in everything that happens in the cage now. She wants to see everything Pulla has, and is very, very interested when I make adjustments to her side so that it will not be dangerous to Pulla to move around, and very eager to test all of it out herself. She's also incredibly keen to groom and cuddle with Pulla, and basically just kept running back to him after spending some time exploring to socialize more.

I've also concluded that the reason she grabs him and pushes her nose into him might genuinely be due to her having a terrible sense of smell, so she is basically attempting to put her nostrils right into anything she needs to inspect. From all my observations of her, I think her sight works quite well, but she has next to no sense of smell. She is unable to identify seeds or nuts that even I can smell with her nose. She is basically unable to detect (at least without very concerted effort) any smell weaker than fennel seeds. Fennels seeds are the only seeds I have that she immediately recognizes and starts eating instead of spending about six seconds attempting to suss out what I'm offering her (and she actually identifies these by giving them a lick twice or thrice after attempting to smell them first).

I'm not sure if her lack of smell is due to some cognitive issue, or due to actual issue with her olfactory organs. I suppose even just the practical absence of a sense of smell (for any practical purpose) would explain a lot of her issues. Most animals, rodents especially, gain a huge deal of information through their noses. I think it's not the whole of her problems (one thing that can affect smell are various brain-related issues, such as brain damage, strokes etc), but it fits very well with the challenges she has had with dealing with some things. I suppose it is very good that her eyes work, because otherwise it might be a challenge for her to even recognize Pulla when they meet.

(Might also explain partially why she seems to be totally unconcerned with territory. If she can barely smell any markings anyway, she probably can't pay a lot of attention to this.)

[teemu]

Another good interaction today. They spent all evening together and I only had to keep a light eye on them. No issues, until Pulla started to become tired and did not want to handle Pipari coming to hassle him any more when he was trying to sleep, so he started pushing her away and side-siddling at her. Pipari was not too bothered, mostly confused, but I figured it was better if Pulla got to calm down and rest again. He did seem somewhat sad that the divider was put in again, but it's for the best to be gradual about it.

I have much hope that Pipari will become less overeager about these things as time goes on. And when this arrangement has solidified into regular cage life, some random annoyances will also not be nearly as much of a risk anyway. All their other interactions seem really good, and I think this is basically just a matter of their honeymoon wearing off a little so that she doesn't feel the need to just run at him to hug and kiss compulsively. Their other interactions are still somewhat tentative, but that is to be expected when they're figuring each other out. They spent a long while laying down in hay together earlier, and it looked really good to see them being casual for a bit.

It also, happily, looks like they're not frustrated by the divider terribly. They both focus on it momentarily before going to do whatever they want to do. I was a bit worried that separating them every day like this might be frustrating and cause friction in itself, but I think they are basically already considering the cage shared and both as belonging there, so it doesn't really seem that bad. They're both moving very casually around the whole cage when it's available as well, and Pipari has basically started rummaging around Pulla's side and building a nest in his hay.

[moletteuk]

Brilliant, glad it's going so well, who would have thought it!?
I agree with you about carrying on with the long meets together for a while, especially since they don't mind being separated again.

[teemu]

Still similar over the past couple of days. Pipari can get really worked up. I have actually allowed Pulla to tell her off a bit without interfering, as long as it doesn't look like things will actually heat up. After all, it's something they will inevitably have to deal with if they live together, and I need to also know that everyone will be safe even when not everyone is happy. After all, I am quite certain that if they ever got into an actual fight and I was not there, Pulla would not survive it. Pipari is quite large and very strong, and Pulla is old, slow, and relatively small. That is the biggest thing I am afraid of, since if things go wrong they could go really wrong, really quickly.

Fortunately, it does not seem like Pipari minds it or gets offended if Pulla pushes her a bit. In fact, it really looks quite like she is doing her best to appease him and convince him to accept her. She sometimes comes on way too strongly, but her behavior is never dominant, it's more like she's too excited and struggling to find a way to just throw herself at him. Pulla sometimes just doesn't understand what going on, and that is when he starts to get defensive. It's quite genuinely a case of trying too hard. Thinking about it, it might be good if I try the same hand-holding method I used with Posso again.

We've now had them in the cage together for multiple hours over the evening at a time. I usually end the session when it starts to look like Pulla just doesn't have the energy for it any more. What needs to happen before things can really go forward is, I think, that he gets more comfortable with her unique demeanor, and Pipari just gets more used to it so that she does not feel like she needs to constantly run up to him all amped up.

Also, Pulla seemed to realize for the first time today that Pipari is actually a female (or at least that he's supposed to care about that). I'd started to somewhat doubt that he even remembers any of that stuff any more. He sometimes got a sudden inspiration to waddle after her and try to grab her butt. Pipari wasn't really too receptive, and it was just a bit awkward for everyone involved. She didn't get mad or defensive at all, but the whole thing seemed to get her really worked up and she was kind of just spinning around and trying to go in every direction at once while chirping like crazy. But even so I'm quite pleased to see that he's becoming more actively interested in her, since his usual method seems to be to just plop himself down somewhere and see what happens.

In any case, even if they're not yet together, I think even this is very good for both of them. Pulla has seemed quite energetic again and wants to really fiddle around when I hold him, and Pipari just seems very excited about finally having company. I actually feel a bit bad, now that I think about the fact that she might have been feeling quite lonely for a while.

[teemu]

Much less of a good day today. It seemed really hard for them to interact today. They did groom and spend time together, but it started to become incoherent quite soon after I took the divider off. They seemed to both be attempting to socialize and getting really worked up over it. Neither was really antagonizing the other, but it was really strange, like they just could not match what they were doing with the other at all. Pulla started to become defensive and I think slapped Pipari in the face, which prompted her to kick at him. It really spooked him up and I think smarted quite a bit. No real damage, fortunately, but he was totally done after that and kept asking me to take him out of the cage. So I just put the divider back in for now.

It's quite difficult because I don't think Pipari even realizes what's going on with something like this. After the situation (while Pulla was still in the cage) she just ran off to rummage around the cage as if nothing happened and kept trying to return to Pulla to hang out more. She really did not seem to understand why he wasn't in the mood any more, and just kept chirping at him. I don't know what's going on in her head, but the one thing I can say is that she is not being malicious on purpose at all. I'm not sure if it's the fact that she has been alone for a long time, or some other challenge of hers (probably both to some degree), but she just doesn't really seem to know or really even consider how any of this works. Which is understandable and all, but I'm somewhat stumped as to how I can help things here...

One problem is, I think, that Pipari does not seem to really understand grooming etiquette. She knows what grooming is of course, but when she comes to Pulla, she often starts grooming weird places, or seems kind of desperately insistent on doing... something. She pushes her head around as if she's searching for something, and I think Pulla becomes really confused and frustrated because she grooms him, but at the same time can suddenly behave in weird ways that make him feel threatened or challenged. And she just doesn't seem to have any idea that any of that is happening. It's kind of really hard to explain. I suppose I should keep my phone ready to get video of it the next time they're together.

However, it kind of feels like it might be good to keep a day off. I think Pulla is somewhat stressed and tired from doing this every day. He is clearly quite intimidated by her, which is understandable given that he has to basically contend with a very unpredictable newcomer who seems like she both wants to be friendly and maybe assault him (from his point of view, anyway). Part of that frustration is, I think, also the fact that he does want to associate with her, and often seems to want to get past the divider to be near her, but is at the same time also quite insecure near her due to all this.

[moletteuk]

I think I would be prepared to give this lots of time. It seems like most of the time they are both very happy to share space for a couple of hours a day, both of their lives so far are enriched by this, Pulla is able to indicate when he wants some peace, would it be a bad thing if this continued in some form for a couple of months, or even indefinitely? What you have already is fairly successful, isn't it? I think it is With all the mysteries of these two, only time will tell how it will play out.

[teemu]

Yes, I don't think it's something that needs to be (or can be, in any case) rushed terribly, and it likely isn't something that will happen as soon as I might have optimistically assumed at first. Neither of their living spaces is massive by itself right now, but it's plenty for Pulla at least, who has mobility issues, and they get shared time plus time outside the cage. Ideally it would be much better if I could combine their living spaces permanently, but there is no fundamental problem with the arrangement. I agree that this is very much positive for them, even if it's not without some hurdles. Pipari is quite happy about all this, and Pulla has been more energetic since I started this as well.

(I think if it looks like things are going really long, I could maybe consider trying to see if I could integrate my spare cage into Pipari's available space. Basically by fixing some sort of a degu-proof tunnel between the side hatches in each, so she could climb through it and have both cage spaces to herself. Ideally it'd be something I could close off when I take the divider out etc.)

And it could of course be that they just won't get to a point where they can be put in a shared living space. I think a lot of it depends on how well Pipari learns to socialize in a functional manner, since at the moment her roughness really isn't something that Pulla will just get used to (I doubt most degus would, since what she's doing is often just blatantly ignoring all social decency). Though of course I hope that Pulla will also get a bit less defensive over time. Ultimately, their issues do not mesh very well (one being young, energetic and very overly excitable, and one being old, mobility-challenged, touchy about personal space and generally not very brave like that), so even in best case they need to adjust a lot.

But if things just won't work out, it's still a lot better that they're both able to at least have some social contact, rather than no contact at all.

[teemu]

Pulla's reactions kind of puzzle me. I said yesterday that it'd be good to have a break, but he clearly does not agree. Last night he demanded to see Pipari just as I was going to sleep, and today he was pounding on the divider as soon as I was around. The second I started pulling it out, he was waiting at the threshold to go over.

And yet when he is actually in the cage with Pipari, he just looks for a corner to huddle in, or goes sit under the wheel, or wants to climb onto my shoulder. It's very weird, and I have no idea what's going on in his head when he's like this...

I guess it might be that he just wants Pipari to initiate contact, but then he also often seems kind of hesitant about it when she comes to him. It's clear that he's intimidated by her, but you really wouldn't think he'd demand to be let in if it was all that scary for him. At no point did he demand to meet the boy, for example, and quickly became kind of iffy about it.

[moletteuk]

Possibly a case of competing instincts and emotions - ancient instinct to be with another degu vs shyness and social complications of real life.

[teemu]

That's probably a big part of it. Pulla is really excited about it all, but Pipari is hard to read, somewhat erratic and really handsy. But I think he understands that she isn't being actively malicious, he just doesn't really know how to handle her yet.

That being said, they behaved very well today. Some scuffling early on, but they calmed down quite quickly and spent a long time together. They seem to actually be gaining some level of routine, and Pipari hassled Pulla less. Ultimately we did get into a situation where Pulla just wanted to sleep and Pipari kept coming up to him and getting slapped in the face. The good thing is that she gave him space each time and went away for a bit, but then she had to come right back to see if he was being more receptive now. There was no fighting though, and Pipari did give him space each time without complaint. After a few repeats I divided them up again so Pulla could rest. I think this is a very good sign, since it shows that yesterday was just an off day and not some indication of things getting worse for them.

I spotted Pipari sleeping in the exact spot Pulla had huddled in later. It's not one of her usual spots, so she must have just wanted to be where his smell was. I really hope that they sort these things out, since it's clear that both want to be together.

[teemu]

It looks like there is some real development happening. Pipari seems to actually be realizing that Pulla will not humor her if he's tired and sleeping. She came up to him again to hassle him and got slapped a couple of times, and I got ready to end it there, but then she just seemed to reconsider, groomed him for a bit, sat with him for some time and then went off to do regular stuff.

It definitely looks like things are still moving in the right direction, and that they are getting more comfortable cohabiting. Pipari can still get way too excited, but I've seen them spending more time just sitting together, and also just doing their own things instead of being totally attached to each other. I think it's a very good sign, since the goal is ultimately (Whether it's near or far) normal life in the same cage.

I got some video of one of their tenser situations today. They still have these, but they are finding ways to slowly make it work. Earlier it tended to be that Pipari was so obsessed and desperate that she just kept pushing into him without even knowing what she wanted, and Pulla freaked out very quickly. Now she's more coherent and Pulla is a bit more tolerant (that is, he puts a hand on her and demands that she stop this, rather than just pushing her away and getting really angry). There's also that way how Pipari often wants to grab him as if she's making sure that he won't go away.
www.youtube.com/shorts/mGaQnQ3d0e0

Then they also have these slightly awkward situations in which she tries to heap attention on him, and he's basically okay with it but quite awkward about it. He does often participate more and grooms back and all that, but sometimes it all makes Pipari looks just a bit needy.
www.youtube.com/shorts/WxhybNu289o
www.youtube.com/shorts/BgbjaHhg3aE

She really wants to grab him, and it's taken her a lot of tries to realize that is she gets too grabby, she's going to catch hands for it. The situations in which it all goes south are basically very similar, but just ones where Pipari pushes it more. It really does look quite desperate, as if she's sure that he's going to shun her if she messes this up (and then of course tries way too hard).

[teemu]

Yesterday was a real breakthrough. Pipari is obviously learning, and Pulla is becoming much more tolerant of her. The day before she left him alone when he was tired, and yesterday she not only didn't hassle him, she actually came to sleep with him. They huddled together in the hay for a very long time, and there were no issues at any point during the whole evening. The only problem situation happened when I took Pulla out of the cage for some time since he wanted to sit on my lap (like he often does in the evening), and Pipari seemed to get really worked up and possibly scared about him vanishing. She couldn't really control herself after he came back, and since it was starting to get really late, it seemed like a good place to call it.

I've noticed that they're starting to figure out a system. Pulla clearly notices when she's too worked up and goes to sit in a corner and shoos her away if she approaches him like that. Then he keeps to himself for a bit, and comes to assess Pipari again. It also seems to work quite well, because Pipari does get a lot calmer after she essentially gets told to go calm down. If she sets the pace, she can easily get really obsessive. It almost feels like she's scared that Pulla will go away or shuns her or something, and it's better when she's not setting the space and being incredibly needy about it. But it's really great to see that they're making it work, I think it really does show that they want to be together.

(Strangely, she does not seem overly distressed when they're separated. She does go to check on him and all, but often she just goes to sleep after the divider slides back in.)

Pulla seems like he's years younger now than after he lost Posso and had to be alone again. It's hard to often even realize how morose an animal has become until they get better. His back's not becoming any less stiff, but he sure has more life in him.

[moletteuk]

I'm so pleased to read this

Their story feels kind of profound, like the world keeps teaching us about perseverance, and the capacity for change, and love and companionship, and hope.

[teemu]

Well, as of the time of writing, they are on a trial period for sharing the cage. I was not intending to move forward yet, but last night when I went to divide them up I found them simply sleeping in Pulla's nest, and it just seemed very cruel to break them up and force them to sleep alone after that. My wife kept monitoring them while I was away today, and there have been no issues. Pipari also seems to generally be much calmer when she doesn't have to manage the excitement of reuniting with Pulla each time. Interestingly, she also seems to actually listen when someone tells her to calm down if she seems to be getting overly excited. Almost like an assertive intervention snaps her out of it. She seems a bit awkward afterwards, as if she suddenly remembers that it's not proper behavior.

I really hope things stay like this. It seems unlikely that they'd suffer a major breakdown at this point, at least immediately. After observing her carefully, I'm quite certain that Pipari would not do anything of her own initiative in any case. At most I'm a bit worried that if she gets really excited, Pulla might get snappy and trigger something in her. She is, after all, just a bit uncoordinated at times. But it's become very clear that she isn't violent at all any more, and aside from being a bit special has actually become a really well-behaved and confident girl.

[teemu]

One very interesting thing, and another good anecdote about the intelligence and social capability of degus is that Pulla has not touched Pipari's soft toys at all. Pipari has had two very slack soft toy rats that she loves to lounge on, and I was really worried that I'd have to take them away now that Pulla would share the cage with her. He has always been notorious for not only tearing up anything made of fabric, but actively trying to eat it as well. We could never give him any soft toys or even any cloth furnishings because the second he got his hand on it, he would start actually biting off pieces and trying to eat them. That's just about the worst intestinal blockage scenario possible, as far as I can imagine.

However, Pulla has not even once tried to bite into the rats. Instead he just sleeps on them with Pipari now. And I know for a fact that he was still totally up to eating anything like that this summer, so it can't be that he's just grown out of it. The only explanation I have is that he genuinely just understood that Pipari would not be happy if he destroyed them. And possibly since they have a clear purpose and her smell he understands that they're not for eating. Pipari did not even have to tell him off. He just did not even consider eating them.

This kind of empathetic thinking of not only understanding to treat others well, but also seemingly genuinely "stepping into someone else's shoes" is something that requires very complex thinking. I think I've seen some research on it, and generally only very few animals seem to be capable of actually going through thoughts of what it would be like to be someone else, and what they might want. Any social animals are capable of wanting to act positively towards others of their kind, but this requires very abstract thinking. I know that rats, for example, want to help others of their kind, and share food etc, but I had pet rats for a long time and I never saw this kind of abstract thinking from them.

I try to kind of temper my expectations about these things, but basically everything I see in degus makes me think that they're genuinely quite intelligent. They're quite atypical for rodents already, and I think they might be somewhat atypical even as most animals go. It's really fascinating.

And also they just look very cute huddling on top of a soft toy together