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Post by teemu on May 1, 2021 17:00:30 GMT
Quite a list of things. Weren't his teeth supposedly already looked at earlier by that other vet? It sounds like the earlier vet really didn't know what they're doing if the next one found dental spurs just a couple of weeks later... Good that they were caught though. As for the pneumonia, is space they're in drafty? How warm is it in there usually? Rodents in general do not take well to drafty areas and can easily fall ill from that. If they both have pneumonia it would suggest that something is creating circumstances for it. That should be fixed, because otherwise the antibiotic is only treating symptoms, not the problem itself. In any case, it's good to hear that another vet actually identified problems instead of just giving you a hard time
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Post by zo on May 1, 2021 21:53:49 GMT
Yes teemu the other vet told me 2 weeks ago that the back of his mouth was fine well obviously not it is a long list I was shocked and feel so bad for them I hope they can get better how long normally does it take for there teeth to grow back? As for the pneumonia I’m not sure of the course of that they are in a wooden cage with glass doors in the living room so I thought there cage was warm because it’s not a open wire cage when I pick them up there paws are cold though they have a snuggle safe to keep them warm
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Post by teemu on May 1, 2021 22:12:06 GMT
Well, if you can't really feel any drafts around their cage and it's not all that open anyway, then it's probably not the drafts. Do you have a thermometer in the room, or can you get one from somewhere and measure the temperature?
How often do you clean the cage, and do you make sure to get most of their urine etc out of it? Insufficient cage hygiene can also cause something like that to happen since it will irritate their airways and so on. Especially urine, since it will create ammonia-laced dust that is really bad for their lungs. Since the cage is enclosed, this is especially important because the ventilation in their cage isn't as good.
It's possible that you are doing everything correctly, of course. It might not be obvious what's causing these issues, but the basic reasons for something like this would be either draftiness or lung irritation and subsequent illness due to insufficient hygiene.
As for the teeth, I'm afraid that back teeth (molars) won't grow back at all (they're like our teeth), it's only the front teeth that grow back. The front teeth grow back pretty quickly.
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Post by deguconvert on May 1, 2021 22:39:58 GMT
OH MY GOODNESS, I am SOOO glad you got the both of them to the better vet!!
Ventilation in the cage could be part of the trouble. Do you have any mesh covered venting in the sides of the cage? Do you ever see moisture collecting on the glass doors of the cage? What do you use for substrate? Pneumonia can be communicated . . . I wonder if one caught it and then the other caught it from the first. I don't suppose you would have any way of knowing if one has had it longer than the other?
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Post by moletteuk on May 2, 2021 11:10:44 GMT
I'm glad this vet has fully taken on both their care now. Do let them guide you.
Front teeth grow at getting on for 1mm a day, but I couldn't really say how fast molars grow, and spurs are a growth defect in any case. I can say that 6 weeks would be a really short time between molar trims, but you don't really know if the previous vet did the trim properly. Teeth being loose is not a great sign, but I think it's a case of waiting and seeing how that you have a better vet. I would certainly recommend you start him on vitamin d drops, if you haven't already.
The pneumonia is a concern and a strange one. Like deguconvert, my thoughts go to ventilation. Also eliminate any chemicals in the air like air fresheners, candles, reeds etc. Keep them both warm.
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Post by deguconvert on May 2, 2021 21:54:44 GMT
OH YEAH! I didn't think of the chemicals. Cleaning chemicals are also big offenders. Plain soap and water, or diluted white vinegar are best.
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Post by zo on May 3, 2021 0:02:25 GMT
I use wood shavings in the cage I think it could be from that to do with there lungs I will have to clean them out more often I use a animal disinfectant spray from pets at home I’m thinking of getting them a lamp for vitamin D and also they will like the warm from it I think but I don’t know what one to get and what to do with that they do love there snuggle safes to lie on the boy still needs to put more weight on he is still very thin he is doing much better now though and I can’t believe since this vet saw him his penis has stayed in why is it a worry for the girls teeth being wobbly and falling out what does that mean? Oh no another problem now I’ve just noticed on one of the other goo he has a lump the size of a pea on his back I really don’t know what I’m doing wrong with them all I feel like such a failure degu mum
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Post by moletteuk on May 3, 2021 9:53:51 GMT
What ventilation is there in the cage? I would certainly switch away from wood shavings, there are options in this thread: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/8754/cage-bedding-reviewsThere's a thread about UV lights here, generally you want a bird lamp or a rainforest lamp if the degus won't be right up close to it: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19147/interesting-page-on-providing-lightVitamin d drop info: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/22749/ratrations-exquisit-daily-degu-mixture?page=2Good to hear Scar Face is doing better, perhaps the cause for the relapse has reduced or gone away and the penis just needed a nudge back in at this point, we can but hope anyway. Unfortunately, Shadow's teeth falling out likely means she has considerable dental disease. Make sure your commercial food has plenty of calcium in it, go ahead and get a UV light or supplement vitamin d, add as much forage to the diet as you can and you could get some high calcium oil seeds (available ready mixed at Ratrations) and don't offer grains as treats. You are doing a good job. You are providing vet care in difficult circumstances including the massive hurdle of encountering poor vets. Degus can be difficult pets, they live a long time and are very poorly bred so they often have considerable health problems, we can only do our best for them.
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Post by zo on May 4, 2021 16:25:05 GMT
They have air vents for ventilation in the cage it never gets condensation in there or steams up and there is no moisture on the glass so I think that’s ok I will stop using wood shavings I think it’s probably that I’m going to try that shredded paper finch stuff I will order that next I spoke to soon about scar face is bits it’s back out again that didn’t last long shadow is still the same as before nothing has changed really with both of them don’t think I’m going to order a uv light just yet as I need two and they are a bit expensive for me at the moment I don’t know about the vitamin d drops as I don’t want to give them to much meds and stuff all at once this is what I give them to eat every day science selective nuggets Burgess Excel country garden herbs hay which I think they have got board of now I tried a different one but they don’t seem that interested and a seed mix from Ratations which one is the best from there to order and scar face and shadow eat the green critical care one scoop of that and one scoop of porridge oats mixed twice a day
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Post by moletteuk on May 5, 2021 12:58:00 GMT
This is the best seed mix ratrations.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3079&search=degu+seedRatrations also do several forage mixes, so you could try some different ones. The oats aren't ideal as they are high in phosphorus, which can affect teeth, but I understand it's tricky when you are trying to keep their weight up. Apart from the oats, the rest of the diet should be ok for teeth, the vitamin d is a personal choice, they will readily take it dropped onto food or with CC, it doesn't taste bad, it's up to you.
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Post by deguconvert on May 5, 2021 20:53:31 GMT
Zo, I would encourage you to not just discount the Vit D3 drops. They are very effective for a relatively low cost. If you can't do the lights right now . . . the drops could make a huge difference.
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Post by zo on May 5, 2021 23:14:21 GMT
Ok deguconvert I will get them until I get a light for them what ones do I get and how do you give them um and how much do they need to have I will try anything that helps I think the boy still has long front teeth at the top I don’t think any of the vets actually trimmed them I think that’s making it hard for him to get his nuggets in to his mouth or anything else he keeps making a grinding noise too can they clip there front teeth without sedation I don’t understand why they wouldn’t have cut them
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Post by zo on May 5, 2021 23:17:28 GMT
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Post by teemu on May 6, 2021 1:06:00 GMT
I'm not an expert on teeth, so I can't really comment on if they're long, but a grinding noise by itself isn't alarming. Degus do a grinding or chattering noise when they're agitated, but grinding teeth is also something they do to wear them down. Hopefully someone else can say more about whether or not the teeth are actually too long.
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Post by bouncy on May 6, 2021 10:05:30 GMT
It's not quite clear in the photo as to whether it's a slightly longer front tooth that can be managed by himself, or whether it's cutting into his lower lip. If the latter, then the vet needs to sort it.
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Post by deguconvert on May 6, 2021 16:08:10 GMT
Bouncy, would you fill Zo in on the Vit D baby drops? I know I am not nearly as familiar as you are with this information.
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Post by moletteuk on May 6, 2021 16:31:30 GMT
The teeth don't really look right to me. It's unlikely they could trim them without sedation, depends on the vet and the degu.
The vit d stuff I worked out is linked above, but it would need checking the dose in the bottles is the same, bouncy should have up to date info.
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Post by zo on May 6, 2021 17:35:30 GMT
I don’t think it’s cutting into his bottom lip they don’t look right to me neither but none of the vets did anything with it when he had dentals I don’t really want him to go under anaesthetic again it’s not fair on him his heart beat dipped last time he had his dental done and it’s only been a week i will order the Holland and Barrett vitamin D drops his prolapse penis is still the same again too I feel like I take both shadow and scar face vets and they still seem the same I keep hoping to get them both better but no change with them really just both on medication I hope I’m doing the right thing by them both they seem ok they just don’t look ok i really try with them but they look rough so maybe they are not ok
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Post by bouncy on May 6, 2021 20:47:38 GMT
Sure DC! I use the Baby D vitamin drops in Boots (other shops available). They get four drops per bottle of water. It's oil based, so it means the bottle needs a wash between fills.
Goos are usually pretty good at sorting out their front teeth. I'm assuming he's got lots of things to gnaw on?
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Post by zo on May 7, 2021 8:40:21 GMT
Thanks everyone yes they have things to chew and I give them apple sticks but for a while none of them have really been chewing I will have to find something he is interested in 4 drops of vitamin D every time you fill there water is that mine don’t drink a full bottle never and are all of them aloud it
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