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Post by moletteuk on May 29, 2021 10:45:47 GMT
I think that's a good point that if Shadow has had the lump for getting on for a year you might expect more to have happened by now, but these things are difficult to predict.
Baby food that is made only of vegetables with no salt or sugar is fine. As Deguconvert says, you can add things to it or experiment with mixing in a little Critical Care.
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Post by zo on Jun 16, 2021 13:22:28 GMT
I feel so upset today I can’t stop crying and I really hope I did the right thing I had to have shadow put to sleep today I’m a bit lost and confused by it all and so upset and still wondering if I did the right thing she went to the vets on Friday about a follow up on her eye everything was ok with that well she would have probably been blind but she would not have to had it removed she was having the drops in it and then her front teeth was really overgrown and she stopped eating and lost lots of weight I was giving her cc and had her booked in the vets today Wednesday for a dental the vet said they didn’t want to put her under anaesthetic as she was very under weight so she did the dental and had a look in her mouth her back teeth was really bad too overgrown and cutting into the back of her mouth making it bleed so was very bad bless her the vet said that because it was really bad in the back of her mouth too that she would have to be put to sleep as she would probably die anyway in a week or so and would be on liquid food for the rest of her life which isn’t very good and it’s not very good quality of life for her so I made that really hard choice to put her to sleep I really hope I did the right thing as I feel horrible I’m so upset 😭 I am going to bury her in the garden should I put her back into the cage so her babies see her first or not. scar face also went today for s check up about his lump in his jaw the vet thinks it’s his roots growing into it but will only be able to tell with an X-ray which she does not want him to go under for as he is still underweight and is weak from so he will be on pain relief and antibiotics for the rest of his life and as for his penis prolapse that it’s fine it’s obviously due to his age and he seems ok about it
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Post by bouncy on Jun 16, 2021 14:25:13 GMT
It's never easy to make such a call but, if you've seen your goo in pain and declining, it's the only decision
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Post by savvy on Jun 16, 2021 14:36:54 GMT
I am so very sorry.
Its never an easy decision, but I think you made the right call. If she was in pain and there was nothing more that realistically could be done that wouldn't involve more suffering, then the only thing you could do for her was to let her go.
If she shared a cage with her babies, then it can help them to understand whats happened if they see her so they can say goodbye.
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Post by teemu on Jun 16, 2021 15:03:22 GMT
I'm really sorry for your loss! It does sound, however, like she was very poorly off. I know how hard it is to make these decisions, but I think it sounds like the correct one in this case. As painful as it is for us, for them it means no more pain and suffering. Giving Shadow a peaceful end and letting go of her was the right thing to do.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 16, 2021 17:41:42 GMT
I am truly sorry for your loss, Zo! So very sorry!
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 16, 2021 17:53:36 GMT
I don't think you really had much choice. It's always awful making the call, and you've had an exceptionally difficult road trying to get good information to base your decisions on. I'm very sorry for your loss.
Sleep well Shadow x
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Post by zo on Jun 25, 2021 9:12:08 GMT
Hi everyone me again I need to come on here and have a good moan about the vets and how useless they actually are all of them don’t seem to listen and do half jobs and just take your money I’m so annoyed so this is about scar face now as poor shadow isn’t with us now I called the vets about scar face his teeth asking them that last week when I bought him in with shadow for a check up if they checked the back of his mouth they told me he was fine last time and the receptionist said they will get the vet to ring me and they never rang me back this is supposed to be the nice vets well I don’t think they are it seems to me like every time I tell the vets they need dentals they don’t want to know they never do the back of there mouths only the front then when they finally do look in the back of there mouths they say they are really bad and have to be put to sleep I’m so annoyed with them I just rang vets 4 pets up now to try and get him in there as he needs his teeth doing ASAP and I’m also very worried about him this time him keep having to have it done I asked the receptionist is he booked in tomorrow for a dental at 3:30 as he really needs his back of his mouth doing she said oh that’s more serious and the vet will have to decide tomorrow so why am I going in again for nothing just to be charged again I have just realised now that they haven’t had there back teeth done for months that’s why shadows was really bad and scar faces will be too then I’m so angry 😡
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 25, 2021 12:54:49 GMT
I'm sorry you are still having such difficulty. I think if I were you I would persist with the 'nicer' vet, and continue trying to speak to the vet to find out if they are able to do a proper dental and then book him in for the procedure. As you say, there is no point going for the preliminary appointment because they are likely to say they can't see the back of the mouth without sedation. Unless you are extremely lucky, Vets4pets are much less likely to do a proper dental, but if you wanted to try with them I would try to speak to their vet first too. Explain to whichever receptionist you have already had a gazillion preliminary appointments and you need reassurance the vet is experienced to do the dental.
Even good vets can be a bit rubbish at getting round to ringing you back if they are busy, so just ring again if you need to. Also bear in mind that different vets at the same practice will have different skill and interest levels for degus, it's worth trying to get the appointment with the right vet at the practice.
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Post by zo on Jun 25, 2021 13:28:09 GMT
Thanks moletteuk for your reply back the vet has just called me and I asked if she checked the back of his mouth last week she said she did and it was fine so I explained that he is showing all the signs that it’s teeth related she keeps telling me that she doesn’t want to put him under anaesthetic under because last time they did that he nearly did not come around and wake up so she is worried about that and does not want to put him under so I don’t know what to do now I’m going in tomorrow afternoon so they can have another look at him he also is sneezing a lot and has a wet mouth so she is worried about that too I said could you check his mouth or clip his front top teeth why he is awake as I’m wondering if they are too long again and that could be the problem do you think she will say put him to sleep I really don’t know what to do here
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 25, 2021 17:06:13 GMT
Did she check his back teeth last week without sedation? This is possible, but it's quite difficult to check every tooth this way. Issues with front teeth are usually caused by an issue at the back. But a quick look should have at least ruled out the whole mouth being a mess.
I think it depends if the vet has any other theories or ideas. If they don't, then sedation, thorough mouth exam and head x-ray would be the only way forward. X-rays would show if his nasal and eye difficulties are due to roots.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 25, 2021 18:03:40 GMT
In some ways we almost need to be pushy with vets and doctors alike. They do not live with our pets, and they don't know their signals the same way we do. Yes, there are pet owners that are basically oblivious to their pets, but you are not one of them! So be bold and say what you see and feel they need to hear and act on. If they aren't listening, tell them, "Hey, I don't want to get nasty here, but you aren't listening to me. Scar is showing these XYZ things and you need to hear me when I say it isn't normal or right. There has to be more you can do, and if you don't know what that is, then bring in the advice of a specialist!!"
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Post by zo on Jun 25, 2021 18:05:10 GMT
Yes she checked his mouth without sedation it was really hard to get a good luck she says she really does not want to sedate him or put him under because she thinks he won’t wake up from it also last time she said about his big lump in his jaw is probably roots but you can only tell with an Ex Ray which she does not want to do again because it means sedating him so I don’t know what other options she thinks he is also sneezing again so think that could be his pneumonia again his Baytril antibiotics does not seem to be working so think might have to change to a different one but she said she does not know which one because most of them are tablet form and we need the liquid one she said she will try to check in the back of his mouth again tomorrow but I really don’t know
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Post by zo on Jun 25, 2021 18:17:13 GMT
That’s right deguconvert I feel as though I’m going around in circles with this he needs a dental she keeps saying she does not want to put him under and sedate him because of last time he nearly didn’t wake up I think that’s scared her but surely if he doesn’t have his teeth done then he could not wake up from that too and be in terrible pain leaving him with his teeth is worse than trying to sort it out for him I know the risks of him going under but I also know the risks of him not going under and at least if he goes under and gets it done I have tried my best that’s why I said I might go the vets 4 pets one because they just put him under without worrying that’s scary too though and they charge me loads too so I really don’t know what to do I have an appointment with both vets tomorrow don’t know which one to go too I don’t think neither of them are going to do a dental tomorrow so why get me down there then for nothing all the time it’s so frustrating I feel really guilty about shadow now as I feel as though i shouldn’t have listened to them this is a horrible experience to be going through you never know what the right thing to do is
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 25, 2021 19:20:55 GMT
I totally agree with you that if you think there is something seriously wrong it's best to risk the sedation rather than leave him to suffer slowly. There are certainly other antibiotics to try Septra is one that there is dosing info for here: www.degutopia.co.uk/deguvetlist.htm Marbocyl is another broad spectrum and doxcycline is another more heavyweight one, all have been used on degus on the forum. I would go with the private vet rather than Vets4pets just because they seem more trustworthy. I suppose you could try to speak to the V4P vet. Your memory of their initial treatment of Scarface will be better than mine, I recall they seemed to put him under OK but didn't do much, did they do any actual dental work that was any use? Has he already had xrays??
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 25, 2021 20:00:48 GMT
I agree as well!! The suffering of a slow and painful death because of refusing to use anesthesia is much worse than using it and him not waking up.
Zo . . . you know this so intimately because of what happened with Shadow. Hear me, I am NOT . . . N O T . . . saying Shadow's death is your fault. You FOUGHT with them to look and look and look, and they didn't listen to your pleas. When they finally did, it was too hard for her to recover.
USE this to your advantage when you see them tomorrow. Bring it up, remind them what happened, and tell them you KNOW it has risks, but you would far rather take the risk, knowing you have been proactive in your fight to help Scarface, than that you had not and he may die anyway. The truth is, IF the trouble IS related to tooth overgrowth, this procedure WILL benefit and give him a longer, healthier life, even knowing that sometimes degus do not survive the anesthetic. BECAUSE we also know for certain, that if the overgrowth is not dealt with, he will most certainly die. You are talking about potential death vs certain death . . . and you are fighting for his life. Ask them to join you in that fight.
HECK . . . if you need help with wording, print these off and read them to them. I know I get tongue tied when I am face to face with people that "know" and I then doubt myself. The thing is, you ALSO KNOW. Trust your gut, love!
Like Moletteuk, I would still go with the "better" vets, but I would go in "armed" with whatever words from any of our posts help you to say what you want to say.
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Post by zo on Jun 25, 2021 21:28:05 GMT
Yes I was going to tell the vets either way tomorrow what I want and needs to be done I did say to her on the phone that I didn’t want them to leave scar face like they did with shadow and it was to late I feel so bad and guilty with her I really tried to look after her the best I could I loved her so much and still miss her everyday I told the vet loads before about shadow that she needed her teeth doing that’s why she lost weight and couldn’t eat I am still raw and angry about it the worst thing is she had a dental as well and I thought they did the front and back but now I found out they only did the front no wonder she got bad my poor babies so I know scar face definitely needs his doing too why are the vets only doing half jobs on them when they go in for a dental I thought that is for the hole mouth front and back it’s ridiculous I won’t let them leave scar face he isn’t that bad yet but I know the signs straight the way so when the vet tells me she has checked his mouth she couldn’t have properly she would not be able to see the back of his mouth they move to much that’s why I’m annoyed that they are getting me in tomorrow and I know they won’t be doing the dental at that time so why get me in for nothing again she did the same thing before So annoying the longer they leave it the worst it is and why still haven’t nothing been done about him lump abscess in his jaw I think shadow had upper root problems and scar face has bottom roots problems
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Post by zo on Jun 26, 2021 17:52:46 GMT
Spoke to both vets today cancelled the nice vets and cancelled the vets4pets one none of them had me down for a proper dental today so what was the point In getting me in there at 3:30 to do nothing again so now I’m booked in Monday morning at 9:15 for the dental at vets4pets this is with the owner of the vets so he is the most experienced one out of all of them I hope he will be on I’m dreading it he seems ok today playing on his wheel and running around but he is really turning his nose up at and food I’m trying with him I don’t know what to do I want to try and build his strength up for Monday but he isn’t having none of it today I’ve tried him with both cc flavours no his own pellets no pellets with porridge oats no a bit of peanut butter mixed in yes a little bit but still wasn’t keen although he has eat a hole peanut strange really I don’t know if he is being fussy or just can’t be bothered to eat he picks some of the jr farm food up goes to eat it then drops it
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 29, 2021 10:15:32 GMT
How did it go?
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 29, 2021 19:32:47 GMT
OH YES!! Things were so hectic in our home yesterday that I forgot about the dental!! I'm echoing Moletteuk, how did it go?
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