robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 12, 2018 10:01:04 GMT
I recently successfully introduced a new friend, Lupus, to my lonely degu, Hagrid. I've always known that Hagrid is very protective when it comes to food, but I'm wondering if it's starting to be a bit much. When I got Lupus he was still very tiny, and Hagrid is approaching his first year at this point. Needless to say, Hagrid is much bigger and heavier than Lupus. I've never used any food bowls with these two, because I know how Hagrid reacted with his previous buddies. He would chase them away and not give them access to the food.
My current solution have been to drop the food in two separate parts of the cage, one for Hagrid and one for Lupus, so that they hopefully can eat their own food in peace and quiet. However, what's happening is that Hagrid eats his own food much quicker than Lupus, so when he's done with his own food he rushes over to Lupus, chases him away and eats as much of Lupus' food as he wants. This even happens sometimes when I give them a new supply of hay, as if Hagrid wants to hog the best parts for himself. It's also worth mentioning that when I first give Hagrid his food, they're both gathered at his spot, and Lupus seems desperate to get some of it before being chased away and running to his own food spot.
I've always just let this thing happen, as I thought it might just be a part of showing who's the boss, but considering Lupus' size and age I'm afraid that he might not get enough of the food to grow properly. This morning I decided to try something new. I'd give Hagrid his part of the food as normal, but I'd get Lupus to come out of the cage to eat his food in peace. As usual, he kept making angry noises whenever Hagrid moved around and ate his own stuff, as those movements usually mean he might be headed towards Lupus' food any second. I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it, or if I should just leave them to it, like I've used to. It's also worth mentioning that when food is out of the question they are very good friends. They sleep in a pile together several times a day, and groom each other and chitter quite a lot. It's just this food war that has me a bit worried.
Thanks for any help!
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Post by randomname on Jan 12, 2018 10:17:17 GMT
Sounds fairly normal to me robbob. I have 3 degus - we have 6 (!) tiny food bowls, 3 piles of forage & 2 hay racks. They still squabble a bit until they work out they can find another bowl. I also make sure that the food bowls aren't within sight of each other when they're eating, or they grump & grumble at each other for no reason. It's always the top dog starting on the other 2 as well, same as yours. My top dog insists on trying at least 3 food bowls until he settles down to eat, he'll push the others out of the way too. They just go look for another bowl, usually on a different level. The littlest usually hides until the other 2 settle then he comes out & finds an unused bowl, he's not daft! They get along well, just gotta make sure they don't clash over food or water bottles.
I think it's fairly standard goo stuff.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 12, 2018 10:23:29 GMT
Ditto! Try giving Hagrid his food, then leading Lupus away with another. This is how I have to fill my seed bowls. Alternatively, you can dispense with bowls and try generously scattering it in a couple of areas.
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 12, 2018 10:46:49 GMT
Thanks for the quick replies! It makes me relax a bit, knowing it's completely normal behavior. I like the idea of spreading the food between multiple little bowls all around the cage, might try that
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 12, 2018 11:24:20 GMT
Young degus do need quite a lot of food and more than adults, so I think it is a concern if he seems hungry and is not getting his share. Have you been weighing Lupus regularly, is he steadily putting on weight and growing OK? What food are you feeding, and do they empty the bowls? If you feed a pellet type food it's normally quite unusual for the degus to immediately empty the bowls.
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Post by winic1 on Jan 12, 2018 12:54:20 GMT
Young degus do need quite a lot of food and more than adults, so I think it is a concern if he seems hungry and is not getting his share. Have you been weighing Lupus regularly, is he steadily putting on weight and growing OK? What food are you feeding, and do they empty the bowls? If you feed a pellet type food it's normally quite unusual for the degus to immediately empty the bowls. I was thinking the same thing--if they finish all the food you give them, you may not be giving them enough. Unlike a dog, who eats once or twice a day and that's it, degus should be able to nibble on something whenever they feel like it. There should always be an excess of hay available (although mine empty the hay pile into their massive, continually growing den pile) and pellets and forage, if you feed that. They should be able to go over to the bowl or food pile place and grab something to chew on at any time. In the wild, they would spend most of their day searching for food, and eating whatever, whenever, wherever, they found it. Some would get taken back to the den and stored, but mostly they would nibble all day long. If you feed them and they finish it right then and there, they may not be getting quite enough, which is why they would be so possessive of food and fight the other one over the limited supply. Now, it's also natural to protect food when you find it, so giving them more will probably not stop the fighting, but it should relax quite a bit, and several small piles spread out over the different levels makes it much easier for each degu to eat in peace, and get enough. I have two degus, and I have two forage bowls, two pellet bowls, which are always full of something, then two seed bowls which get put in on separate levels when I give them seeds, as they are extremely possessive of their seeds. I also scatter dried vegetables all over all levels of the cage, so they have to forage for them, and occasionally toss the seeds all over as well, again, so they can search for them like they would in nature. One of my goos likes to hide his treats and finds in a certain corner, doesn't seem to realize that it's not a protected place and the other one goes and eats it there, so he's always grabbing more than his share, but he isn't eating it all. One does NOT like the pellets being in the top level bowl, he pulls out 10 and dumps them on the floor for every one he eats, so that level is constantly covered in pellets. They will always have their quirks. And often they won't tolerate the other sharing the bowl they are at, but then the one driven away knows to go to another place in the cage and eat there.
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 12, 2018 16:52:12 GMT
I feed them Versele-Laga Degu Nature and hay as base feed, with some seeds, rolled oats, veggies and herbs as extras. I might be giving them a bit less than what I should, as they always eat everything I give them once I feed them. I've read somewhere that a generous table spoon of dried feed is enough per day, so I've given them around half a tablespoon each twice a day. I've had problems with overweight guinea pigs previously, so I've been a bit afraid of overfeeding. I guess I shouldn't be so concerned yet, as they're still both young. I didn't know that food should be so plentiful that they should have it available at all times. I thought that was for hay only! I should probably give them bigger portions and sprinkle extra food around all nooks and crannies in the cage to promote foraging more and to give them the opportunity to find some food during the day if they want to. Does that sound like a good idea? Anything else to add, while we're all here? Oh, and I have only weighed Lupus once, back in December. Thanks for reminding me, it's long overdue at this point. Last weighing was 21th December, and Hagrid weighed 196g and Lupus weighed 130g.
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Post by savvy on Jan 12, 2018 17:11:47 GMT
I'd give them a greater variety of forage, if you look at somewhere like Jr Farms or ratrations, they do a fantastic range of forage for degus. Also Hannseman range is really good. Try raspberry leaves, dandelions, Parsley stalks, ribwort etc.
Forage should be unlimited and be most of their diet along with hay, pellets should only be about 5% of what they eat.
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 12, 2018 17:48:52 GMT
ratRations have an amazing selection to choose from, just checked it out! The shipping is very pricy, but I'll see if I can make at least one order to provide some variance to their foraging. I knew that both hay and foraging are important, but not that the foraging part should provide such a high % of all food eaten each day.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 19:10:15 GMT
ratRations have an amazing selection to choose from, just checked it out! The shipping is very pricy, but I'll see if I can make at least one order to provide some variance to their foraging. I knew that both hay and foraging are important, but not that the foraging part should provide such a high % of all food eaten each day. It’s a flat price regardless of how much you order so stock up!
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 12, 2018 20:29:45 GMT
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case for me! I've checked the shipping cost as I've put more stuff in my cart, and the price has risen to the extreme! I can't justify a shipping cost of 45 quid when the items themselves cost just over 20 I'll have to look for another source of foraging stuff for my goos.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 12, 2018 20:44:05 GMT
OOOOFF!! OUCH!!!
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Post by savvy on Jan 12, 2018 20:53:34 GMT
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case for me! I've checked the shipping cost as I've put more stuff in my cart, and the price has risen to the extreme! I can't justify a shipping cost of 45 quid when the items themselves cost just over 20 I'll have to look for another source of foraging stuff for my goos. Where are you based? I've never paid more than £7 for shipping from Ratrations.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 12, 2018 21:11:48 GMT
I suspect they need a lot more pellets, a tablespoon could be as little as 2 or 3g. Starting point for an adult is 10g per day, and for a youngster is 15g per day, but when you have a homogenous pellet (as VL Nature more or less is) most people feed unlimited and the degus regulate themselves. It's very unusual for degus to overeat and almost impossible for a youngster. As you increase forage, they will naturally eat less pellets and then you can reduce the amount you offer so not so much is wasted. So weigh out some pellets to get a feel for how heavy a certain measure is and take it from there. Also, look out for some different brands, Versele Laga Pro or Complete are better than Nature as they have more calcium and no grains, also Science Selective is OK as it has good calcium and is well liked, and then either JR Farm grainless and guinea or Rosewood Naturals Meadow Menu Degu (or guinea) are good as they are grainless. It's best to mix 2 or 3 brands as none of them are ideal and all have shortcomings. The fighting over the food should drastically reduce once there is a surplus. You may find they start hiding and stashing any surplus, but that's OK, you will have to accept a certain amount of wastage, but they do go back to eat from their stores, give things some time to settle. You can also buy some forage from Zooplus, where you can also get a couple of the above foods, or Hansemann's in Germany have the best selection and prices of forage if you can order in bulk. Some useful links for you: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guidedeguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chartdeguworld.proboards.com/thread/15234/pre-foods-closedeguworld.proboards.com/thread/15657/bought-herb-leaf-flower-mixes?page=1
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Post by bouncy on Jan 12, 2018 22:46:57 GMT
One thing to keep in mind is that, in general, degus don't overeat. If you leave food in the bowl(s) all the time, they will get used to it being there and just munch when hungry.
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Post by claire on Jan 13, 2018 5:36:05 GMT
I think with rat rations it's based on the size of the box they have to use or the weight maybe as they use a courier to deliver it. I use them I'm in Cornwall and I get charged different depending on what I order.
I don't weight my dry feed they get about two handfuls of nuggets a day and they never completely run out. Along with the usual forage hay and herhum treats... don't judge they control me with those cheeky head tilts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 13:18:14 GMT
Me either. I’ve ordered like 15kg from there before and it’s £6.50 or £7 delivery.
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 13, 2018 13:21:01 GMT
I live in Norway. I've been shafted when it comes to shipping from smaller online stores before, so it's not something completely new for me. I've been using degutopia as my main source for degu info, and I'm pretty sure I've read that pellets/mixed/nuggets should be provided somewhat sparingly, as degus will prefer that over hay. That site also recommends the new version of VL Degu Nature, as it apparently is better suited to degus' needs now. I bought a 2kg bag of it from zooplus, so I'll have to use it for the time being. I might look into alternatives at a later time. Just re-read the responses I got and saw a mentioning of mixing multiple brands of food. Might not be a bad idea! The fact that degus don't overeat is new info to me. If that's true, I feel less worried about having it available to them throughout the day I'll actually weigh the food when it's feeding time again, to get a better feel for what 10-15g looks like. The 40+ quid shipping was for a package just over 2kg, it was still over 20 quid when everything was a measly 1kg. I'll keep looking for alternatives, so thanks for sharing some links! I'm glad I decided to ask about this, as I was hesitant at first. It seems like I still have a lot to learn!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 13:36:09 GMT
robbob unfortunately degutopia is extremely out of date and not at all a reliable source for degu husbandry. Hay is not a part of forage, my degus don’t even really eat hay. They eat just forage and seeds. They always have hay available and a pinch of a mix of nuggets. The mixing of a few “better” brands is important because as Moletteuk said, they are all lacking in certain areas. Zooplus might be a good option for you.
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robbob
Foraging Degu
Posts: 52
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Post by robbob on Jan 13, 2018 14:41:56 GMT
In that case I'll be better at using this site as a resource. It seems like information is more up to date and easily available, as well as there is a pretty high activity on this forum, for whenever I have specific questions etc.
The only seeds I've given them are sunflower seeds, and only a few each, every other day. I didn't know seeds should be a bigger part of the overall diet. I'll be reading up some more on the information available here, and just ask if I have any questions.
I've used zooplus multiple times already and I am very happy with them!
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