Have I left it too late?

[degu1234]

Hi everyone!
So I have had my two degus a 4 weeks this Wednesday.. it started off great minus a few glitches with finding food that they would eat but after several attempts I finally found the food they eat and like..
everything is going well and they have settled in well.. they have a routine, they go in exercise balls when they are getting cleaned out etc. However I am worried because I have not properly handled them yet and pets at home said I have left it too late so will probably not be able to handle them! I’m gutted if this is the case!
The second week of having them I was putting my hand in the cage with treats and they were coming over and eating them.. they put their two front paws on my hand but I stopped doing this over the last two weeks as they were not eating regular food and basically lived on treats and hay.. so I stopped as I knew it wouldn’t be good for them but now they finally have food they like and eat and have been on the food for two weeks now.. they still get 2-3 treats a day each through the cage bars and take it.. when they hear the cage door open they are there at the door trying to have a look or get out.. I Have one very flighty goo who is a total escape artist!! Or should I say he tries.. if I open the door and put his exercise ball there he will try and climb over the top of it, the side of it, any which way put into it so he can get out, he has no fear and hasn’t since day one! He even tried to squeeze through a gap in the open cage door the other day rather than going into his ball and ended up dangling from the cage door to a 4 foot drop, luckily I was there to help him back into the cage! I feel like if I got him out he would just be away, he wouldn’t sit he would just run and go wherever he could, he is a little bugger out of the two and always upto mischieve or fighting his brother! The other goo is more gentle, he was a very nervy goo and wouldn’t come out of his box when we got him, now he roams around, eats and comes to the cage bars and takes treats off your hand etc so I thought I would try openeing his exercise ball last week and go in for a little stroke while I fed him a treat, he sat for about 5 seconds and let me stroke his head, he then tried to run up my dressing gown towards my chest area where I got hold of him and placed him in the cage as it was a shock and I didn’t want him to fall as I was stood up at the time so it would of been a 5 foot drop.. 2 days later I got the same goo in the ball and sat on the sofa, opened the ball and let him come onto me, he did, he seemed quite eager to get out of the ball onto me but when trying to hold him he just wriggles and runs to the edge of the sofa so I had to keep scooping him into the ball and after 5 mins he went back in the cage.. I can’t put my hand in to feed them food as they are at the door before you open it both trying to get out, they are only 15 weeks old and I suggested to my partner that maybe they were a little too flighty at the moment to hold but pets at home told us that because we have had them a month we have left it too late and therefore probably would not be able to hold them as they are used to not being held so I was gutted to hear this, I was just wondering if this is true or if anyone else has had an experience where their goo’s are just TOO flighty too be held and if they settle down a little in time? I really hope I can hold them at some point and haven’t left them too late like p@h have said. 😢

[Deleted]

Hi there and welcome to the forum!

First thing first, please read our beginners guide: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19754/beginners-guide-degu-keeping

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Pets at Home don't know anything about degu husbandry, but don't feel bad, many of us started where you are starting right now! (Including myself).

I'm guessing you've been sold their cage? www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/small-pet/chinchilla/chinchilla-homes/chinchilla-and-degu-cage this one?
We will discuss this once you let us know what cage you have. To put it simply, the cage they sell is far too small, it's not even big enough for a hamster really, let alone two degus! But please don't worry - we can help you get a full refund to put the money towards an appropriate cage which we can help you choose. I was in the same boat as you a few years ago - I got my money back, as have many others.

The cage they sell you will result in them fighting, due to lack of territory/space and it can result in them fighting to the death. Mine got to the point where this was happening. But don't worry, it sounds like they get along fine, so that's good news! They will greatly appreciate the space upgrade when it's possible. Here is the minimum cage for 2-3 degus: www.littlepetwarehouse.co.uk/products/metal-aventura-huge-metal-rat-ferret-chinchilla-cage.html

Here is our cage size guide: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations

Degus are ground squirrels, they cover vast areas every day in the wild, they aren't climbers, so they need full levels to reach full running speed and to be able to express natural degu behaviours!

The diet they recommend is not correct either. Here is a great guide to diets: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide please feel free to ask as many questions as you like, we can help you improve every aspect of their little lives, being with you and away from P@H is a good start lol!

Please don't use those giant balls, they're too small for degus - they have poor ventilation too, but they curve their spine in an unnatural way. They're death traps.

Degus are flighty lol, they're prey animals! Most degus hate being handled, so if you were looking for a cuddly pet, a pair of degus isn't really a good choice unfortunately! They're more of a 'look but don't touch' kind of pet. They will enjoy climbing over you, but they don't generally speaking like being held. Once you have an appropriate cage sorted, we can recommend playpens/DIY playpens for you to get, which is a great way to interact with your degus, you can leave the cage door open, or transport them via a tube (tube training) and then put them in the playpen, with a few toys, have a few treats and let them explore the area and you.

You sound like you have been doing the right things.. but you will need to start off slowly again to help rebuild a bond. Just spend a few hours a day sat by their cage, do some reading, watch TV, anything. Talk to them softly so they get used to your voice. After a few days, move on to doing this with the door open, wait a few days continuing to do this before progressing to resting your hand at the opening of their cage, once they feel comfortable with your hand being there, put a few healthy treats on your hand, let them take the treats from you. You will know they are comfortable when they stop running away as soon as they've grabbed the treat. You can then try staggering treats up your arm and so on. But as I said, most goos do not like to be picked up or restrained in any way. Most don't like being stroked. I have 1 that tolerates it, 1 that enjoys it out of 6. Most members here also have goos who don't like fuss.

That being said, they're extremely intelligent creatures, so you can have endless fun with them.. even just watching them and observing their relationship with each other is brilliant.

Again, welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your stay with us! I ended up staying permanently and I love the community we have here! My degus now have the best lives thanks to everyone on this forum and their excellent resources.

[bouncy]

In all honesty, P@H haven't got a clue. They give false information, and sell inadequate products.

The main point is that you haven't left it too late. Many of us on here adopt adults, and we can still "train" them.

First things first, you MUST stop using the playballs. They don't let in enough air, and there aren't play balls big enough to accommodate their spines, especially when bigger, without excessive hyperextension. The other thing is, it gives you no physical contact with them.

Degus, generally, aren't cuddly pets like guinea pigs or rabbits, but you can get them to interact with you very well. Your first steps of putting your hands in and getting them to take food from you is perfect, and is as far as some owners ever get. The next bit is harder, but is worth the effort.

Either think of a goo proof room that you have, or create a large play pen. The wire pens sold are useless because they either fit through the bars, or climb them to freedom! Some make a pen from hardboard or ply. Make it a good height - perhaps 100cm, as they can jump! In both scenarios, make sure there is no access to any electrical cable, or anything you don't want chewed, and that the floor can either be wiped or washed easily, as they wee a lot to mark their territory. Also, remember they can squeeze themselves through the smallest gaps, even 2-3cm if determined. Some of use the bathroom or kitchen.

The next thing is to make sure that you can fit too, sat down. Put some toys in too. Nothing extravagant, just things like tubes or old boxes.

Here's a use for your playballs. Get them to jump in to transport them to your play area, sit down, and let them go! They will love exploring, climbing all over you, and it's the loveliest thing having your goos climbing on your lap! You can do this as often as you like, but don't leave them unattended.

Personally, my kitchen is goo proof. I keep the two groups in there permanently. The old adopted group comes out when I open the door, runs around, wreaking havoc, then take themselves off to bed via a ramp. All climb on me at various points, and one prefers to sit on me.

The pups (my younger rescues) come out afterwards via a tunnel. Again, all climb on me. Even after over a year, there is still one of this group that will not let my hands anywhere near him, but he knows me tapping the tunnel and standing up is his cue to go back in, and the other two are happy for me to pick them up to plonk them in, or will step into a tube for me to transport them.

[degu1234]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I was aware that p@h are useless when it comes to degu’s, I realised this weeks ago after they told me all sorts of wrong info such as using cat litter, handle them daily and restrain them in your hands and stroke their head, along with spending £20 on 4 different types of food for them as they weren’t eating any! I later just went and risked buying them beaphar vital degu food and they loved it!
The cage I have wasn’t bought from p@h it but it is similar to the big cage you have shown, it has 5 levels all accessed too with ramps, they have their degu wheel water bottle hay house nibble toy and cardboard tube up the top, their food bowls, vitamin bar and water bottle on the 3rd level and hay, litter box, chew toy and wooden house on the bottom level, they run around all over and love climbing the bars on the top and jumping off them haha.
I knew they didn’t like being handled too much but from what p&h told me they wouldn’t go near me ever again for leaving it too late!
They come to the bars, take a treat and sit and eat it where I gave them it and we can put a finger in and stroke their back while they eat and this doesn’t bother them, they just sit there.
They are a bit wary and tend to walk away if you stroke them when they are not eating but we don’t do this too often, when they are in their ball with the top off they let you stoke their head but they run on to you, I’ve only tried restraining one of them once but it was for his own safety, he tried running off my lap across the sofa and nearly fell so I grabbed him and put him back in the cage as I didn’t want him breaking his poor legs, he did not bite though, neither of them do and they run to the corner when you go to the kitchen as this is where we usually interact with them and give them treats.
We don’t have a playpen as the ones at pets at home are terrible and munch would be over and out within seconds! Honest he is like spider-goo! He’s quick and clever and loves a good adventure! He climbs over the wheel and hangs from the cage bars then flips off and runs to the bottom, he’s crazy haha!
We talk to them all the time and I sit next to their cage for roughly 4 hours a day if I’m at work or sometimes 8 hours a day if I’m off work as I tend not to go out without my partner.
They know my voice and come to the cage to sniff me or occasionally I’ll put the sleeve of my dressing gown through the bars and they love to sniff it, cuddle up to it or try and drag it through the cage haha.
I just worry about letting them climb on me in case they jump off me as the room is not degu proofed, we have a little boy so there tends to me tv wires, game console wires, toys, toy cars etc etc.. with us having a small house and a child a play pen that can be folded away or stored away would be perfect rather than a huge playpen that has to sit somewhere.
Well after reading this I’m confident!! They was p@h worded it was that I should of been holding them and stroking them by now and to cup them in both hands to stroke their head, I felt guilty thinking I’d left it too long as they told me they were like hamsters who loves being held and cuddled! I felt like a bad goo Mam! Haha

[moletteuk]

Degus are super intelligent and super social, so they will respond to taming and training actions from you at any age. They are never going to want to be held and most prefer not to be stroked, but if you can figure out a playpen then you can have other great interactions with them.

There are 3 links to playpen threads here: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/18716/accessories-make-buy


Beaphar Xtravital isn't a brilliant food because all the essential bits are in the grassy pellets that very few degus will eat, so if they selectively eat this mix, the nutrition goes way off very quickly. I would recommend that you try a couple more different ones and try to end up with them eating a mix of 2 or 3 brands if possible, they all have their drawbacks and this helps to get around that as much as possible.

The beginners guide should help, but we also have a feeding guide deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide and lots of useful threads about diet - if you can find some healthy treats that allow you to work on taming without wrecking their overall diet, you will find it easier and less stressful. Small pieces of nut, small pieces of dried vet, small seeds like sesame or coriander, dried flowers are decent places to start.

[Deleted]

Can I ask what cage you have? Could you find a link? I'm really intrigued! I don't wanna see it to bash you, it just sounds different to what we've seen before so it would be nice in case it's another cage we haven't found and can recommend possibly to others in the future if it meets requirements!

Degus don't need a vitamin bar, I'd suggest you remove it

What size wheel do you have? P@H tell you the wrong size for that too. They need 12 inch in diameter as a minimum. Tictac wheels are great! Anything smaller has the same problem as the exercise balls unfortunately.


Please do ask us any questions concerning diet. Mine don't eat nuggets really, 90% of their diet is made up of forage. Degus can be quite picky with healthy nuggets.

[degu1234]

I have two bowls one which I put the beaphar xtra vital degu food in and another bowl which I put a mixture of black currant leaves, apple twigs, parsley, flower mix and dandelion root. I also bought them a forage box but honestly they are not interested in foraging! Not one bit! They didn’t bother with the forage box apart from to eat the actually cardboard box.. they will go and have bits and pieces out of the bowl with the mixture of leaves and flowers but don’t eat a massive amount.. they do tend to leave the pellets of the degu food but they do eat everything else, plus hay and the parsley, flower mix etc.. then they get the occasion apple and parsley treat, carrot treat, porridge oat or pumpkin seed. Does this sound ok?
Also I can’t find a link for the cage but I do have a picture but not sure how to add a picture as I am on my phone and do not have a computer

[Deleted]

If you're on your phone download the Tapatalk app, it's what I use and it's fab and super easy to upload pictures etc onto the forum on it.

The pellets are the bits you want them to eat out of the beaphar xtra.. the rest is all added "junk" if you get me, it's a muesli type. They'll eat their favourite nice bits and leave the healthy stuff.

Try different forage, forage should make up the main bulk of their diet to keep them healthy and avoid dental issues and other dietary issues.

Zooplus is a website which is good for buying forage, as is RatRations.

P@H is incredibly expensive for forage so avoid there.

Pumpkin seed/porridge oat once a week.. they can have nuts too like hazelnuts, Brazil's etc once a month! They love chewing them out of the shell.

[ntg]

Oct 10, 2017 7:38:33 GMT @emdalliance said:

The pellets are the bits you want them to eat out of the beaphar xtra.. the rest is all added "junk" if you get me, it's a muesli type. They'll eat their favourite nice bits and leave the healthy stuff.

Technically, you want them to eat everything in the muesli as that's what all the nutritional values are made up of - we don't know what the contents of the pellets are as it doesn't give individual values for each different piece.

What I woupd recommend doing is to change your degus onto two good pellets nutritional value wise rather than a muesli feed as selective eating that comes from the muesli feeds has been implicated in dental disease in small herbivores (the study was in rabbits but can be linked to guinea pigs, chinchillas and degus).

[randomname]

Here's the study for those interested - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25788144

www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/the-problem-with-muesli-mixes-1 - the expert speaks!

[Deleted]

"The vitamin and mineral supplement comes in powder form, so it is usually incorporated into the compressed grass based pellets, otherwise it would fall to the bottom of the bag of food. The pellets are the least palatable ingredient of muesli mixes so most rabbits do not eat them and they are left in the bottom of their food bowl only to be discarded by the owner, along with the vitamin and mineral supplement they contain. Although it is possible for the vitamin and mineral supplement into a more palatable extruded biscuit, this is more expensive for the food manufacturer as some of vitamins are destroyed in the cooking process, so more supplement is needed, which adds to the cost of production."

It basically causes dental problems and dietary issues as they don't eat the right bits and contain too much fat along with other issues.

[degu1234]

The thing is I literally can not get them to eat pellets!
Trust me they are THE fussiest degus ever!
I bought p@h degu nuggets, they were in there 3-4 days and one was gone, out of 20 nuggets. I then tried them on the selective degu nuggets, I was putting 15 in their bowl and they ate 2 in the space of 4 days so I bought them a forage box and they were not bothered in the slightest, it was in the cage 5 days and came out looking the same as when it went in. I bought them parsley, they don’t like it, they don’t like the flower mix, they do like dandelion root, they snaffle it up but I only give this once a week. I found the beach at xtra vital degu food and they are always at the bowl but they do leave the dark green pellets and eat everything else. I’ve tried giving them a small piece of lettuce, they both licked the water off the piece of lettuce then walked away, I tried again and they just tried to lick my finger instead then walked away. So I bought fresh coriander, nibbles was not interested, he sniffed it and walked away, munch had a little nibble for all of 3-4 seconds then walked off, I tried again and the same happened. I then tried giving them a small bit of raw carrot each, again, nibbles was not interested and walked away and munch ate 1/4 of the small piece then won’t go back to try anymore. I’m lost as to what I can give them to help give them the nutrition they would get from pellets because aside from forcing them down their throats they will not eat them.
They get:
A bowl full of beaphar xtra vital degu food (topped up daily or every other day) but they don’t eat the dark pellets
Unlimited Timothy hay
A heart shaped treat each once a day
A carrot shaped treat each once a day
Pinch of porridge oats each once every two weeks
Pumpkin seed each once a week
Small handful of dandelion root once a week
Small handful of flower mix every other day (they don’t eat this)

HELP?!

[Deleted]

Heart and carrot shaped treats shouldn't be once a day, once a week, not with oats, pick one of those things per week as they're treats.

Like has been said, you need to try different foods, and keep persevering. Mine don't eat nuggets but it's not an issue as I don't really want them eating nuggets as the primary source of their diet anyway.

Try different brands of Timothy hay, I use I think it's called something King from p@h, it's super green and it's the only one mine will eat.

Pellets just order different ones and try them, it's good to mix 2-3 different brands together to help avoid selective feeding.

Zooplus sell some different ones.

From ratrations there is the Daily Degu Seed Mix : www.ratrations.com/degu-seed-mix-p-1235.html

This can be fed daily, 1 tsp per degu. Introduce it slowly as with any new food.

Please just keep trying different forage. There's absolutely loads you can try from Zooplus and ratrations.

Get up our safe list and then open ratrations and/or Zooplus and buy everything that you can that's safe. If you want to PM me I can help you choose degu safe things that can be fed daily

[degu1234]

So in your opinion, would you say they are not getting what they need by only having beaphar xtra vital degu food and Timothy hay?

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2017 20:06:31 GMT degu1234 said:

So in your opinion, would you say they are not getting what they need by only having beaphar xtra vital degu food and Timothy hay?

It's not just opinion unfortunately, most of the nutrition degus need comes from forage, which is why it should make up the most of the diet, plus it is good for the wear and maintenance of their teeth.

It is also best to feed 2-3 types of nuggets mixed too rather than just one, alongside UNLIMITED forage, UNLIMITED (I would underline it but it doesn't let me on my phone, so please don't think I'm shouting lol!) hay, 1 tsp of seed mix per degu and a healthy treat once per week, a nut once per month and so on! ☺️

There's lots you can read in our diet section if you have a look.

[degu1234]

Just to clarify what do you mean by seed mix?
So would this be ok:
One bowl beaphar xtra vital degu food (I don’t want to take this away as they really like it)
One bowl of 2-3 different types of nuggets
A box with different forage materials
And a handful of seed mix (one I understand what that it haha)
And unlimited meadow or Timothy hay
Also if I was to put a separate bowl of 2-3 different types of nuggets and they still did not eat them what would be my next step?

[Deleted]

I sent you the link a few posts up, from rat rations.

You can mix the beaphar with 1-2 other nuggets in a bowl.

You give them a teaspoon full of seed mix each, not a handful. I sent you the link of the one to buy from ratrations about 2 posts up.

Unlimited forage, rather than a boxful.

Unlimited Timothy and meadow hay.

Again, I would focus on getting forage they will eat rather than nuggets. Mine probably eat 3-4 pieces of nuggets each per day maximum.

There's absolutely loads to buy from ratrations and Zooplus. If you message me I will help you, if you'd like help. I can send you links to all of the forage that can be eaten daily.

[deguconvert]

It can be helpful to have 3 or even 4 different types of hay on hand to give in a rotation of sorts because degus get tired of their hay pretty quickly. If they have a different type every couple of days though, it keeps them interested and eating it better. Have a look at this thread. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21632/hay-advice

Seeds should be limited, using primarily oil type seeds deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts, but I think you can give them more than once a week. Or am I remembering wrong? Have a look in some of these. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15795/links-interesting-food-threads
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15670/homemade-mixes

Do you understand what what we are talking about when we say that degus should have access to unlimited forage? Do you know what "forage" would be?

[moletteuk]

I'm sorry it can be a bit overwhelming figuring out degu foods and then relating that to what you find your own degus prefer to eat. I can reassure you that most of us found it to be a process that took some time and is something that we keep going back to thinking about again and again as new information and products come out.

Many degus can be a bit resistant to commercial food because degus have a weirdly strong instinct towards carbs, even though they are bad for them. Degus are actually 'designed' to eat low nutrient plant matter, that's where the forage comes in. At least with the Beaphar you know they aren't starving for now so you have some time to figure out other options. I'm just going to say that dental disease is rife in degus so it's best to do all you can to get the basics of diet right to try to avoid this. These two threads should help you with ideas for other commercial foods to try. Look for grainless and high calcium.
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chart
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15234/pre-foods-close

Here you will get ideas for what forage is available to buy, but you can also collect for yourself: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15657/bought-herb-leaf-flower-mixes?page=1

Seed mixes are available ready mixed from Ratrations. You want 'degu seed mix', but you can also feed 'degu treat and plant mix' in smaller amounts. Up to around half a teaspoon each a day is somewhere to start. We have more information about the seed mixes here: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

I would say it's too soon to say what to do about them not being keen on the pellets. Try some more and see what happens. Try some more seeds and forage and see how they take to those. We tend to say it keeps things simpler if they do eat some pellets because pellets come with vitamins and minerals already added, so it takes some responsibility away from you. In particular vitamin D can be a concern becuase degus make it through sunlight in the wild and we have to supplement it artificially (through UV light or food additive) in captivity and it's really important for dental health. If your degus end up loving the seeds and forage and hating decent pellet options, then you can go down the full natural diet route and you would need to be careful they get a big range of forage and you would need a UV light (or artificial supplements). Don't worry about that for now, try more foods and let's see what happens and take it from there. OK?

It can get costly at first when you are trying different foods, but that settles down once you know what they like and the best places to buy them. In the end most of us find that the food variety is actually a great source of pleasure for us and our degus, you can really see how it improves their lives to have natural stuff to graze on all day as they please. Don't let the current stress spoil that for you.

[degu1234]

Hi,
I’m going to try mixing their forage with their hay as they seem to eat for of it that way than it being In a box.
However I have got some coriander seeds and fennel seeds, how many of each of these should I feed a day to each degu?