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Post by nuttz on Mar 3, 2012 11:31:55 GMT
lol, thanks smithomatic.. it did smell pretty good too ;D it sounds like your goos are very lucky, the items you mention sound great and make up a pretty good rounded diet, im sure! im still learning (or should i say, trying to learn) but im finding it so hard, as i said before..im useless at identifying plants, herbs etc etc...  lol |
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Post by fred on Mar 3, 2012 11:34:01 GMT
You are doing a fantastic job nutts, and you are rightly proud of your last mix *bravo* And you are doing just what we have been trying to promote, namely providing 50% natural nutrition from bought, grown and collected greens. How much comes from the three principal sources depends of people's circumstances.
If your hard feed is Versela-Laga Guinea Crispy, it has a good calcium:phosphorous ratio of 1:0.55 and doesn't seem to have anything in it that could increase sugar content to an unacceptable level. It is a bit low in fibre but with all the natural stuff your goos get, plus hay, it isn't a problem.
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Post by nuttz on Mar 3, 2012 11:47:27 GMT
well that is fantastic to know fred! yes, the hard feed is the type you mention, i forgot the make of it but just ran into the living room and found a bag of hamster mix that i feed the hamsters,( its the same make but for hammys). thats a relief to know!
as i said before, i am trying my best, it feels good to know they are getting good healthy food. wish me luck in the garden this year..im not very green fingered but looking forward to it none the less......lol
have you any suggestions of types of seeds i could try and grow?
so far i have:- a premium herb range (not sure exactly what though as its in a pack, lol) basil, carrots, parsley, broccoli, pumpkin and water melon.. the melon was brought for my kids...lol i also have just planted a new apple tree ;D
thanks again!
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Post by fred on Mar 3, 2012 11:59:46 GMT
I am about the last person to ask, my fingers could hardly be less green  However, there will be more useful information coming up over the next couple of months. What worked well for me is growing from the bird seed mix which I feed my girls ( deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=food&action=display&thread=9785 ; I will update this shortly). You could also use dandelion seeds, just make sure you harvest before the plants get to the seed stage themselves  |
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Post by nuttz on Mar 3, 2012 12:04:39 GMT
shall try that........ thank you fred! ;D
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 3, 2012 12:33:11 GMT
I don't understand how simply commenting on the cost of a product, along with the cost of other products has got anything to do with animal welfare.
Gerty Guinea is suitable as a partial component in the degu diet, and so is relevant for discussion.
If you mean are people free to discuss all aspects of degu care in a free and open manner? Yes.
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Post by smithomatic on Mar 3, 2012 12:36:12 GMT
Yes nuttz I too am struggling as to what is good or not good for my degus right now. I feed as well rounded a diet as I can possibly offer, my degus have access to around 50 different kinds of food in their enclosure, I trust them to find what they need.
Unfortantely I do not understand the science currently, as I have not been able to read a concise report about exact nutritional requirements for degus nor have I had the opportunity to study the degus biology. All this calcium to phosphurus ratios malark confuses the heck out of me and currently means nothing without context? :S
One thing I have noticed from offering such an extensive range of different foods in the enclosure is that the degus selectively feed.. ALOT. However I do not consider this a bad thing, the degus will be eating lots of one thing one month and swapping to something else the next. Its as if the degus seek out the nutrition they require at the time.
Some days they will eat a little bit of everything, other days they will stock on something particular. Pets cannot be responsible for their own care, that is now up to us. However I feel that offering such a wide variety of food puts the ball back in their park somewhat, I trust that nature will play its role and the degus will feed themselves appropriately.
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Post by smithomatic on Mar 3, 2012 12:41:43 GMT
I also just wanted to add that I am always looking for more different things that I can offer to my degus, I love exploring both nature and the shops. While at the shops the other day I noticed this: Country vegetable mixture. It is intended for human consumption when mixed with a stock.
The ingrediants however are raw and not tamperd with. Here is the list of ingrediants :
dried veg(56%) (yellow split peas, green split peas, lentilles vertes, red split lentils, green beans, onion, carrot) Pearl Barley and Dried pasta (10%)(durum wheat) Dried Barley flakes.
Fred can you shed any light on these ingrediants for me? would they be suitable to offer to degus? in quantaties?
thanks in advance
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Post by nuttz on Mar 3, 2012 13:07:01 GMT
@ smithomatic, yes, its extremely confusing isnt it  i dont not understand the technical stuff either and its slighter harder here and most products in the shops are all in spanish and i do not understand /translate very well into english this is the reason why i love this forum, there is always somebody that knows or can point you in the right direction. together we will get there!! ;D |
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Post by smithomatic on Mar 3, 2012 13:23:23 GMT
together!! lol  |
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Post by fred on Mar 3, 2012 13:50:11 GMT
Gerty Guinea is suitable as a partial component in the degu diet. Who says so? Does the manufacturer sell it for degus? What does "no added sugar" mean when the manufacturer apparently doesn't give the concentration? Why would you feed anything with such a low fibre content (10%) to degus? Why would you feed anything with such a low calcium:phosphorous ratio to degus? What makes extruded locust beans, anise and fenugreek oil, soya oil, oranges, bananas, salt suitable for degus? As a partial component it may not be dangerous, but suitable? |
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Post by fred on Mar 3, 2012 15:19:03 GMT
smithomatic I wouldn't recommend the Country vegetable mixture for two reasons. The non-veg components (44%) are too high in energy and mostly not recommendable except perhaps as the occasional treat. The veg overall are not what one would typically feed degus in larger amounts (lentils, beans, onion). That does not mean, however, that similar products with a different composition might not be suitable. smithomatic and nuttz I appreciate it has become rather complex and confusing. We honestly didn't expect the 50% natural nutrition project to be that successfully so quickly. What makes it more difficult is that we have to think about members in North America and over here from Norway to the South of Spain. The feeding guide on www.degus-international.org will make things clearer and provide plenty of links to further, reliable information!
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Post by smithomatic on Mar 3, 2012 21:30:13 GMT
Im sure it will fred, I have complete faith, I am in no way trying to slander the nutrition movement. I am simply saying I will look into it properly once all the work is coherent and in place Till then I will carry on as normal I cant wait I have not fed the country veg mix too my goos as its expensive and for me lol but im excited about the possibilites of similar products out there in the supermarket.. eyes peeled! Thanks for the heads up too |
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Post by davx on Mar 3, 2012 22:06:22 GMT
Does this matter? It is far away from being suitable for guinea pigs. Keep in mind that guinea pigs more than degus rely on low grain/energy food. They have probably less than 10% seeds in their natural diet, in contrast degus eat up to 60% seeds depending on the season, but in avarage about 25%.
The manufacturer sell what the marked accept and not what is healthy for our animals.
Well in wild degus prefer low fibre food and select for nitrogen rich plants. I could observe the same thing here with my degus. Most fodder plants, the degus really were fond of had a high nitrogen content and usually had low fibre content. E. g. wood sorrels, white goosefoot, sorrel, clover, kale/cabbage etc.
As titbit I think it is okay, but look at the vegs, that are nearly all starch-rich legume-seeds (peas, lentils, beans), onions are considered as probably problematic, but in smaller quantities and dried I think they aren't. the 44% non vegs are barley and wheat not really the best choice, but I might be worse. As I stated as titbit it sounds pretty good, but as main mixture for my it is too much peas, beans and co in it and also the amount of cereals is in my opinion too high. Better you offer your degus whole nuts. I think this is a more natural energy rich source. And as addition/ main food fresh vegs, kitchen herbs, dried herbs/flower/hay... combined with a bird seed mixture.
btw. there is eventually the possibility to buy dried vegs for soups. Here in Germany it is sold in supermarkets. I even had the possibility to buy such vegs in my pet shop about 6-8 years ago.
Concerning this topic I have good news. I made a list with plants from Canada. As I stated elsewhere I was a bit disappointed, that many species for me were well known and common here in Europe. But on the other hand that means, that many plants we can use here in Europe, are also available for our friends in Canada and probably also for at least some parts of the US.
Spain is a Mediterranean habitat and another topic I'm working on (at least some plants are already in our German wiki), but at the moment that is of minor importance.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 4, 2012 0:27:18 GMT
Gerty Guinea is relevant as a cost comparison for the plain fact that lots of people use it. Suitability is a different topic. That mix looks great Nuttz, soooo Mediterranean! Weeds are sometimes sprayed in urban areas in the UK, often with glyphosate, which is a systemic weed killer so it is absorbed through the whole plant, and can take a few days to show effects, which could be a worry. I think this is mostly done on pavements, or where they are clearing overgrown areas, where verges are encroaching on footpaths and so on. I think flower beds are usually hoed for weeds. I think insecticides in public urban areas are likely to be quite limited, probably only used for things commonly infested like roses, are a specific plant or tree with a problem. Also, WOW!  at some of the international food costs! Is it possible to buy hay locally by the bale? Are pet food costs in the same proportion to people/livestock food costs, or are pet owners specifically being exploited? I'm sure there must be exploitation of pet owners . . . the things that people will buy and spend on their pets that truly are not needed or called for are mind boggling!! Think of the clothing sets you can buy for dogs and cats!!!! Deluxe collars and leashes . . . TOYS that are every bit as expensive as toys for children, ever more costly for a large number of them. And the potentials go on and on!! It's exploitation of owers all the way, in my opinion! |
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 4, 2012 11:59:52 GMT
Well, if there is an element of exploitation of pet owners, rather than just everything being expensive, then maybe this allows some scope to come up with ideas to source things in different ways, like looking at buying hay from farm sources, or aimed at horses etc, or if there are such great differences in price between countries maybe there is scope to import things?
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Post by nuttz on Mar 4, 2012 12:38:05 GMT
but.. wouldnt the hay intended for horses be too tough.. its more like straw than hay, isnt it? im sure out here i could get a huge bale of the stuff for almost nothing, but would it be good for the goos? hmmmm lol importing from country to country sounds great but i fear this could be mighty expensive? i guess it depends on the means of importing. |
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Post by fred on Mar 4, 2012 12:48:09 GMT
@ nuttz There has just yesterday been a thread on hay intended for horses on DeguForum and there were no reasons why you couldn't give it to degus. However, if you buy the bale and your goos decide they don't like it (such things do happen *angelic* ), you have wasted your money. I also think it is nice to change the hay from time to time.
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Post by nuttz on Mar 4, 2012 13:02:37 GMT
oh..well i must of missed that discussion fred the thing i would worry about is, wouldnt it be too sharp, what if the goos got it in their eyes, straw isnt atal like hay.. a while back i was offered some straw for my rabbits but declined as i didnt think it would be that safe for them.. maybe i should try and find a supplier.. give it a go, if the goos or rabbit dont like it, i guess it would come in useful on my new (to be) veggie patch, i could cover the ground pretty well.... lol the hay brand is often changed, mainly due to me shopping about and buying from different stores.. the hay i have at the moment is naff..(only brought it on friday) the man in the shop recommended it to me, said its new stock that he was trying (bla, bla, bla) stupidly, i fell for it and the goos hate it.. lucky the rabbit isnt too fussy and i shall be out tomorrow to buy some more |
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Post by fred on Mar 4, 2012 13:07:49 GMT
oh..well i must of missed that discussion fred It was on the German forum; I only mentioned it because it addressed your question. But thinking about it, there could be differences between such hay available in the UK, Germany and Spain. |
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lol
However, there will be more useful information coming up over the next couple of months. 
i dont not understand the technical stuff either and its slighter harder here and most products in the shops are all in spanish and i do not understand /translate very well into english 
at some of the international food costs! Is it possible to buy hay locally by the bale? Are pet food costs in the same proportion to people/livestock food costs, or are pet owners specifically being exploited?