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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 16:43:46 GMT
My girl degu has lost huge amounts of weigh since Sunday. She wasn't over weight but not thin either. Yesterday when cleaning her cage her body condition shocked me. She is skin and bone, stomach pinched in and huntches over. Her face is puffy and looks big. Her sister is healthy. She is eating constantly and drinking and moving round the cage. Any ideas? We have managed to find an exotics vet that's miles away and will see him tomorrow. Is there anything I can do or does anyone have any idea what this could be?
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 20, 2016 22:05:05 GMT
Try some plain porridge oats, maybe some nut butter if you have access to any. Dill weed (dried or fresh) is an appetite stimulant, so maybe try some of that as well. Do you know if she is drinking? I am wondering if she could be dehydrated in any way? This is NOT something I would recommend for anything else, but I think your circumstances are desperate. Dissolve about an 1/4 of a teaspoon of honey into a 1/4 cup of water, and just a dash of salt, and see if she will drink that from a syringe. This could help with re-hydrating.
How is she doing now?
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 20, 2016 22:09:26 GMT
Sounds a bit unusual if she is still eating and drinking. Are you sure she is eating successfully and swallowing OK (could she be picking food up and then dropping it)? First choice with weight loss and puffy face is a dental issue, like overgrown teeth, which could then be causing a wound that is then infected and swollen. Make sure the vet has a proper look inside the mouth with a scope, you may need to volunteer to assist with holding her (take a towel with you so you can wrap and hold her).
They do lose weight frighteningly fast when they are poorly. Make sure you offer lots of calorific things, like nuts and oil seeds and even grains.
Good luck and let us know.
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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 23:10:23 GMT
Thank you. I've seen my status says newborn she's actually 3 years old. Her sister is in good health and trying to look after her. She's going to a vets tomorrow at 9am with my partner as I have to work but I'll update after 3 when I'm home. I can't tell if she's eating or just chewing the food. She's attempting to eat constantly and is drinking from the bottle, the vet thinks that her huntched up could be from pain 😢 So hoping whatever it is can be sorted fast. I've brought some critical care food that will arrive tomorrow and as long as the vet agrees will start her on that too. I've looked all over the Internet and can't find anything matching her 😟
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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 23:24:56 GMT
Thank you. I've seen my status says newborn she's actually 3 years old. Her sister is in good health and trying to look after her. She's going to a vets tomorrow at 9am with my partner as I have to work but I'll update after 3 when I'm home. I can't tell if she's eating or just chewing the food. She's attempting to eat constantly and is drinking from the bottle, the vet thinks that her huntched up could be from pain 😢 So hoping whatever it is can be sorted fast. I've brought some critical care food that will arrive tomorrow and as long as the vet agrees will start her on that too. I've looked all over the Internet and can't find anything matching her 😟
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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 23:26:41 GMT
Try some plain porridge oats, maybe some nut butter if you have access to any. Dill weed (dried or fresh) is an appetite stimulant, so maybe try some of that as well. Do you know if she is drinking? I am wondering if she could be dehydrated in any way? This is NOT something I would recommend for anything else, but I think your circumstances are desperate. Dissolve about an 1/4 of a teaspoon of honey into a 1/4 cup of water, and just a dash of salt, and see if she will drink that from a syringe. This could help with re-hydrating. How is she doing now? I will have a try of the honey and see how she goes
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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 23:40:31 GMT
deguconvert she's moving around the cage eating or at least chewing lots, I feed her on hay and belphar xtrail and hay balls treats are normally from pets at home bags of herbs and flowers and oats last week I did give them a tiny bit of red pepper and celery but nothing huge. Her eyes are clear. She's going to drink so again assuming she's drinking. Her stomach and legs look skeletal her face puffy her spine is hunched up. We have been using vitakraft mainfood mix as the belphar was out of stock But we get that in packs of 5 so she should be used to that one. .she is selective as to what she eats and leaves any off the mix she's not keen on
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 20, 2016 23:41:28 GMT
Your status is simply an indication that you are a new member here, using terms that somewhat reflect the life stages of degus. How is she doing?
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Post by crysania on Oct 20, 2016 23:48:28 GMT
Oh thank you. No change right now. Will update in the morning. It's 1 am here and our appointment at 9 is 2 hour drive but worth seeing someone that knows degus as I think this is more complicated. The vet lectures at London zoo and has booked her straight in with him. I'll update before she goes to the vets and update when I'm home from work. Im a preschool worker so no phones at work so will be a long day waiting tomorrow 😟
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 20, 2016 23:53:32 GMT
Can you have a close watch of her eating and see if there is any sign of the food coming back out of her mouth . . . as if she is unable to swallow it? There is the potential that she could have trouble with her molars, especially if you can see food coming back out the sides or front of her mouth. There is also the potential for diabetes, which degus are prone to. Sometimes it can have an extremely aggressive onset and the effects can be seen within days. Your vet will hopefully test for that, as well has check her molars. You may have to find a way to carefully restrain her for this, as they may not be able to knock her out to have a good look due to her current condition.
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 20, 2016 23:55:36 GMT
OH! Sorry, love! Will be thinking of you!
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Post by yasmin on Oct 21, 2016 0:26:54 GMT
It could be any number of things. I so hope the vet can find out what is wrong and that it is something they can treat.
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Post by crysania on Oct 21, 2016 5:41:09 GMT
Can you have a close watch of her eating and see if there is any sign of the food coming back out of her mouth . . . as if she is unable to swallow it? There is the potential that she could have trouble with her molars, especially if you can see food coming back out the sides or front of her mouth. There is also the potential for diabetes, which degus are prone to. Sometimes it can have an extremely aggressive onset and the effects can be seen within days. Your vet will hopefully test for that, as well has check her molars. You may have to find a way to carefully restrain her for this, as they may not be able to knock her out to have a good look due to her current condition. Oh just watched her eating and I'd say most of the stuff she's chewing is falling on the floor. Thank you for the tip as now we can add that to the vets list and I'll send food with her for them to see. Fingers crossed it's a teeth thing 😊
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Post by crysania on Oct 21, 2016 15:56:17 GMT
Thank you everyone for you help. She saw the vets this morning and had two teeth removed, yep you guys were spot on with the teeth. So now I'm confused. He was really cross at the food we give her saying it's junk food. I feed her belphar xtra trail degu mix and vitrakraft premium mix with hay and herb/flower mixes from pets at home. He said that the back two teeth were worn to a spike and the nervous raw. What does everyone recommend as good feed?
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 21, 2016 16:40:36 GMT
Can you tell us any more about what the vet found and did? Did he remove two opposing teeth? Does he expect them to grow back or has he removed the growth point aswell? Was there any wound and infection? Have they given you painkillers and antibiotics? The Critical Care you mentioned will be a good idea, are you OK with syringe feeding? So, there are two main things you can do to ensure as good dental health as possible. The first is to feed lots of forage, fresh or dried, this is what degus are designed to eat, it keeps the teeth worn down, provides energy in the correct slow release format, contains the correct balance of nutrition. The other thing that we know is a factor is calcium content in the diet. Degus need about 1% calcium in their diet. It occurs naturally in the right quantity in forage (if you provide a decent variety) and it occurs in high quantities in certain oil seeds, so we can use these to supplement. The other issue you may come accross is the ratio of calcium to phosphorus in the diet should be around 2:1, ie double the calcium to phosphorus. Phosphorus occurs in large quantities in grains. The commercial foods mostly contain significant amounts of grain, and mostly the calcium is provided artificially via addition of calcium carbonate (which is a an easily absorbed source). You can get into a serious problem is the degus selectively at the grains in a mix and reject the pieces that contain the calcium. The problem can get even worse if people then provide treats that are also high in phosphorus and low in calcium (veg, grains like oats, nuts). Basically, you need to really increase the amount of forage that you offer, herbs, tree leaves, meadow plants, safe garden plants and weeds, grasses, flowers etc. And you need to pick a couple of better hard feeds if you want to continue feeding some commercial food. (The Beaphar food is a nightmare calcium wise if your girls selectively eat it). We recommend the Rosewood Naturals Guinea or Degu, or JR Farm grainless Guinea (all v similar) combined with Science Selective, and possibly Versele Laga Degu Crispy. We have loads of diet info for you to work through: Start with the feeding guide that contains loads of clickable links to further info: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guideThese two will help you with commercial food: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chartdeguworld.proboards.com/thread/15234/pre-foods-closeOh, I forgot the other thing is high calcium oil seeds, these are your best bet for treats and as a general healthy supplement, you can buy ready made from Ratrations.com or mix your own with the help of our nutrition charts: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-chartsThe vet was probably cross because the word is only spreading rather slowly across the UK and USA that most small furries (guineas, rabbits, degus, chins etc) can only be healthy and have healthy teeth if they are fed a high proportion natural diet. All the commercial feeds for these species are not suitable if fed exclusively, or even with just hay. BTW don't worry so much about diet for her right now, the main thing is to get her over the procedure and get some weight back on her, so lots of oil seeds (in a variety though), nuts, grains, maybe some alfalfa and dandelion to start getting some calcium into her.
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Post by crysania on Oct 21, 2016 17:41:11 GMT
I didn't get to go but I'll photo the sheet we had from the vets. My partner said the teeth will grow back. One was twisters and both were worn down to spikes. Both were back teeth. I'm not sure if they gave antibiotics as I asked him that and he didn't know. I'll give the critical care feed in a syringe that's not a problem and will have a week off work this week so loads of time to read up on feed options for her. So glad I posted on here. It's reassuringly to have people we can get help from. The vet didn't have a go more went to town on the feed and talked about health and sugar. She's not diabetic and I'm pleased as I'm careful with treats. He recommended just pellets and that's why I was confused. I've seen posts before List flowers and to me me if belphar is not a natural food sorce nor is a nugget? But yes select was one he said to use. She is selecting the bits she wants so we need to really look into this more. I'm just glad to have found a vet that knows degus and treated her so quick and knew a lot about them. We phoned loads and most just said they would have a look but knew nothing.
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Post by crysania on Oct 21, 2016 18:25:41 GMT
Not sure how to upload photo from phone but here's the list of what was done General anaesthetic Dental incisors burr Vetergesic 10ml per ml cd schedule 3 Metacam inj 0.2% cat (10ml) per ml
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Post by deguconvert on Oct 21, 2016 19:43:45 GMT
A photo hosting site is needed, such as Photobucket.
Make sure that you keep the pain under control. Have you experience with giving medications? Is she home with you, or staying with the vet for extra help?
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Post by crysania on Oct 21, 2016 23:18:44 GMT
She's home with us and no mess came home with her. One of the ones in that list is meant to be a long acting pain med? We're keeping a close eye on her and giving her loads of time laying on us, her sister is also staying near her. I was surprised there was no follow up or anti biotics given any changes in her and we will head straight back to the vets
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Post by yasmin on Oct 22, 2016 0:41:11 GMT
In one way, it is a relief that the teeth are the problem because something can, and was, done about it. Diet is an important element in teeth health; as well, there are genetic/hereditary issues at play.
Usually there is no need for a follow-up unless she doesn't start eating on her own in a few days. Also antibiotics aren't always necessary. My vet only prescribes them if there is an open wound in the mouth usually caused by a molar spur digging into the cheek or the tongue. (I wonder if pointy spurs were removed – not teeth. I think that is what is meant by the term "burr".)
I hope she makes a quick and full recovery – the Critical Care is key to that if she doesn't start eating her regular food right away. It is good that the vet gave her Metacam – it is a pain killer and anti-inflammatory. Expect it to last about 24 hours.
Please keep us updated on her progress. If you have any issues/concerns, let us know. Many of us on this forum have had experience with this.
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