Baby Degus Bleeding Tails

[randomphil86]

Hello Forum.

I really don't know what to do, I brought 4 degus from my local pet store 3 days ago and they are all supposedly boys from the same group. (About 9 weeks old).

The first day was fine as they settled in, however I noticed on day 2 one of the Degus tails had been bleeding and had a bit of stumpy end.

I observed them more the next day and have clocked the bigger of the group biting at all of the other 3 degus tails and he is drawing blood.

I'm really worried, I've given them loads of toys and rope however its making no difference. They have 2 food bowls and two water bottles, to try and stop fighting.

They sleep together fine at night all cuddled together.

What should I do? I did phone the pet store and they advised not to remove the offending degu as the three left could start doing the same.

Is it just a dominance thing that will pass soon ?

Help , please.

[fred]

Hi there, I really can't say much but I think you'll be desperate for some response and I'll at least try to address your problem. I haven't heard anything like this before. They occasionally nip each others' tails but are not normally drawing blood. I never heard of it as dominance behaviour. I would probably separate the one until you can find out what is going on. For now, a few questions that may help more experienced members to give you advice.
Are you sure it's always the same one?
How much damage is he doing.
Do you observe any fighting between them?
Did the pet shop tell you why they think the three would do the same if you separated the fourth? (This doesn't make any sense to me)
Do you have the opportunity to separate the one?

[randomphil86]

Sept 4, 2011 19:06:39 GMT @fred said:

Hi there, I really can't say much but I think you'll be desperate for some response and I'll at least try to address your problem. I haven't heard anything like this before. They occasionally nip each others' tails but are not normally drawing blood. I never heard of it as dominance behaviour. I would probably separate the one until you can find out what is going on. For now, a few questions that may help more experienced members to give you advice.
Are you sure it's always the same one?
How much damage is he doing.
Do you observe any fighting between them?
Did the pet shop tell you why they think the three would do the same if you separated the fourth? (This doesn't make any sense to me)
Do you have the opportunity to separate the one?

There are 3 in the cage now with nipped tails and the bossy one who i have witnessed doing the biting his tail is perfect. (Is why I thought maybe its a dominance thing).

They do squabble and fight on occasion using their front paws too it looks like box each other, however these times no harm is done.

They can be just randomly walking around the cage when the one starts to bite the others tail, the smaller will squeak and pip however the biter pursues to bite again.

The damage appears to only be right on the tips of the tails, however the blood clots and then it gets nipped again and continues to bleed.

The Petshop basically said, if I returned the dominant one the three left could mean one of the others becomes dominant and the whole situation could continue.

I brought the biggest cage I could, the only other cage I have is a travel one and I think that would be cruel to have to keep him in that.


Would a Chinchilla Bitter spray for the tail stop the biting?

[Maravilla]

Hi,
it's the first time I read something like this. I don't see it as dominance either. It's really strange. I do not agree with the pet shop's explanation either.

Do you know if they had done it in the pet shop as well? How sure are you about the age? Ok, it's a hard question, but it wouldn't be the first time that a retailer makes degus deliberately younger just to sell them better.
Even with all the toys (what do you call toys?) it could be boredom, some kind of bullying the others. Do you have a running wheel which they can use? Can you provide them some permanent playground outside the cage just to make the space they have bigger? Young degus have lots of energy!!!

One thing I would do is take out the sandbath for a couple of days. It could cause infections. Normally the tails heal without any problems, but monitor them carefully.

[randomphil86]

Sept 4, 2011 19:24:45 GMT Maravilla said:

Hi,
it's the first time I read something like this. I don't see it as dominance either. It's really strange. I do not agree with the pet shop's explanation either.

Do you know if they had done it in the pet shop as well? How sure are you about the age? Ok, it's a hard question, but it wouldn't be the first time that a retailer makes degus deliberately younger just to sell them better.
Even with all the toys (what do you call toys?) it could be boredom, some kind of bullying the others. Do you have a running wheel which they can use? Can you provide them some permanent playground outside the cage just to make the space they have bigger? Young degus have lots of energy!!!

One thing I would do is take out the sandbath for a couple of days. It could cause infections. Normally the tails heal without any problems, but monitor them carefully.

I cannot be sure about the age they do seem young, It was from a big pet store called Pets At Home, so I would of hoped they would of known and given the proper facts.

They have a large running wheel, and they seem to be unable to rotate it/use it and just ignore it.

I had them out playing for a few hours during the day but not 10minutes passed after I had put them back and he had bitten again.

Other toys in there are wooden blocks, a hanging hammock/rope they climb in, rolls of kitchen roll (the cardboard bit), they like to play with these, A plastic tube they climb through, sticks Iv had from the garden (its an apple tree- washed/cleaned to make them safe). A hard ball they like to chew.

[fred]

I have had Pets at Home lie to me about the age of degus before, so that wouldn't be a surprise. Still, the squabbling you describe is absolutely normal behaviour and the tail biting has nothing to do with dominance issues. To me it seems that the one who is doing the biting may not be aware that he is nipping too hard. If I am right, this may be a problem, because I am not sure how he is going to learn it. As Maravilla suggested, remove the sand bath and monitor closely that the tails of the others are not getting worse.

Pets at Home are notorious to get the sex of their degus wrong. We would recommend that you make sure that you have four boys. This would be easiest if you could take pics of their ”bits” and post them here.

Finally, welcome to the forum; it is a place where you will be able to get good advice for your degus.

[randomphil86]

Sept 4, 2011 19:54:31 GMT @fred said:

I have had Pets at Home lie to me about the age of degus before, so that wouldn't be a surprise. Still, the squabbling you describe is absolutely normal behaviour and the tail biting has nothing to do with dominance issues. To me it seems that the one who is doing the biting may not be aware that he is nipping too hard. If I am right, this may be a problem, because I am not sure how he is going to learn it. As Maravilla suggested, remove the sand bath and monitor closely that the tails of the others are not getting worse.

Pets at Home are notorious to get the sex of their degus wrong. We would recommend that you make sure that you have four boys. This would be easiest if you could take pics of their ”bits” and post them here.

Finally, welcome to the forum; it is a place where you will be able to get good advice for your degus.

Ok, I will try and get photos tomorrow during the day.

Would it be a good idea doing the chinchilla bitter spray just on the tail, to see if this stops it? or could this simply lead to biting other parts of the body?

oh and Thanks for the Welcome, I really did not know where to turn, I'm so attached to these goo's after only a couple days and its breaking my heart

[fred]

Sept 4, 2011 20:00:52 GMT randomphil86 said:

Sept 4, 2011 19:54:31 GMT @fred said:

IWould it be a good idea doing the chinchilla bitter spray just on the tail, to see if this stops it? or could this simply lead to biting other parts of the body?

I wouldn't. When I got my two girls and one had lost the tip of her tail, I put on something that was supposed to be repellent, and it only let to her and her sister becoming more interested in it.

[randomphil86]

Sept 4, 2011 20:34:43 GMT @fred said:

Sept 4, 2011 20:00:52 GMT randomphil86 said:

Sept 4, 2011 19:54:31 GMT @fred said:

IWould it be a good idea doing the chinchilla bitter spray just on the tail, to see if this stops it? or could this simply lead to biting other parts of the body?

I wouldn't. When I got my two girls and one had lost the tip of her tail, I put on something that was supposed to be repellent, and it only let to her and her sister becoming more interested in it.

Ah may be risky then. Any other ideas?

[deguconvert]

Something I am wondering about is the potential difference in age from the dominant larger degu and the three smaller ones. Is there the possibility that he is even several months older than the younger ones? I'm wondering if he was a lone degu for a while, and then was introduced to pups that were newly arrived at the store. Or . . . . He almost sounds like he has some behavioral issues that can result if a pup is removed too early from it's parents. It certainly isn't a normal behavior that he is exhibiting. I kind of feel that his removal is the right way to go, too. Yet I hate to think of him being alone. What a quandry!

[randomphil86]

That could possibly make sense, he is not as nervous as the rest and will leap at you to get out the cage. The rest take more time to suss out the situation.

Im gonna try and keep him if possible as he's a total joy to handle. No biting towards me.
We will see what happens in a week or so if his biting gets too carried away I may have to remove him

It's just odd I give them food they dont squabble, they will sleep together etc

[Maravilla]

Have you tried to weigh them? If there are really differences in age, these should be seen in weight as well.

[moletteuk]

Have you tried telling him off when he does it? You can blow on him to reinforce the telling off, it will surprise him and should make him stop, if only temporarily. Is the wheel faulty, or have they just not sussed it yet? You probably need to make sure they each have a food bowl, even goos that are bestest buddies won't share a food bowl without squabbling! They will probably box quite a lot for a while as they sort out the pecking order. Maybe you could make some sort of fake tail for him to play with out of feathers or something??

[randomphil86]

All I want is for them to get along, I managed to put some antiseptic cream on the Degus tails to help prevent any infection occurring.

Im just gonna have to keep doing this for a while as it appears to also deter the biting slightly, he sniffs, goes to nibble and stops.

The trouble is they dont fight when he does this, he will just run up behind another Degu and bite there tail and hang on, holding the tail with a paw as he gnaws on the end.

I dont know why, I just feel like im letting these Degus down..

[NightwishRaven999]

randomphil86
Maravilla's suggestion might be something you could try.
Weighing your degus would be the best way to tell if the offending degu is older than the other three.

Here is a little nugget of information on the matter.

"Fur Chewing or Biting: You often see Degus with chewed tails and it is not clear what causes this. In chinchillas fur chewing is said to be down to boredom, stress or lack of fibre. So make sure that your degu has plenty of toys and hay to eat. If a tail is damaged they may also chew at it and it due to pain or lack of feeling. It is also possible that nerve damage due to diabetes may cause lack of feeling in extremities. You can get foul tasting stop-chew lotions designed for chinchillas that can help with this - particularly if it is another degu in the cage doing the chewing but remember the degu will also get this in its mouth when grooming."

Source: www.erodent.co.uk/deguinfo.htm


There are other cases similar to your own.
This is a forum thread from last year.

deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=behaviour&action=display&thread=6781

[randomphil86]

I did try and weight them, however keeping them still enough for the scales to register (digital). Was impossible lol.

Fully cleaned them out yesterday, put them back in and they have finally figured out how to use there wheel, now there all queuing for it, crazy.

Maybe have to buy another to stop a possible fight brewing.

[fred]

If you can get them into a tube or a little basket and than put that onto the scales, just blocking their exit with your hand, that may help. Works with mine at least

[randomphil86]

Sept 6, 2011 12:26:07 GMT @fred said:

If you can get them into a tube or a little basket and than put that onto the scales, just blocking their exit with your hand, that may help. Works with mine at least

Managed it even if I did get a nip

Degu Weights:

1) 108g (The one who's taken most tail damage).
2) 110g
3) 120g
4) 115g (The one who bites the others).

Guess looks can be decieving.

[randomphil86]

Maybe this is an odd question, but I am giving them Timothy Hay to eat as well as there Degu Nuggets.

However I have noticed they favour the part of the hay with the seeds, which to me it kind of looks like the end of a Degus tail.

I am wondering whether he is mistaking tails for those hay bits.

[fred]

I think we may have run out of ideas what may be behind his behaviour. I have just described your situation on the German deguforum.de in the hope that somebody there may have an explanation and advice. I will keep you updated on this.