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Post by Ady on Jun 5, 2011 1:12:47 GMT
Thingy? I haven't used that word. Does this forum change the words they don't like (approve)? OK.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 5, 2011 3:39:37 GMT
I would say that most of the neuterings that have been reported or discussed on this forum came about because of male to male combat that has been unresolved no matter what efforts have been exerted. It is thought, in these cases, that with the loss of testosterone resulting in a marked decrease in aggression and territorial fighting, the males will be able to finally be reunited and bonded again. The thing is, the residual testosterone in the body takes up to 6 weeks for it to be burned off, and trying to re-introduce before the 6 weeks is up will actually do more harm to their future bonding than if you just wait out the full time. The 6 weeks refered to has nothing to do with sperm, and everything to do with testosterone and how that testosterone affects the mental/emotional view of that degu.
Make sense?
As to your male, I agree, put him back in with the Momma!
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 5, 2011 3:46:54 GMT
Most of the information we have regarding the fertility of a female following her delivery has come from Degutopia and various other sources . . . all mixed together and apparently somewhat confused and now less than fully correct. Thank you, Fred for finding some very exact information for us. Knowing that the P.O. of the female lasts 21 days following delivery is important to know. Ady, you need to take him to see your vet tomorrow. It is not unknown that following a neutering a male may experience a prolapsed "thingy", but it does require attention as quickly as possible. And yes . . . certain words are changed or edited on the forum. EDIT!: Fred explains further on, but I want to make sure I take note of it here in case my misunderstanding gets propagated rather than the actual facts. Female degus have a fertility cycle of 21 days, TWO out of those 21 days they are receptive to being impregnated, but the remaining 19 days are not. This cycle repeats.
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sam99
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 126
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Post by sam99 on Jun 5, 2011 7:52:02 GMT
I am still dealing with a prolapse on a guinea pig following neutering 10 days ago. Have had a post op check up at the vets and we are hoping that within a few weeks the prolapse may resolve itself. In the meantime the priority is keeping it clean and if necessary, lubricated and gently returned to where it should be. It seems that it can be quite a regular thing following castration so at present I'm not unduly worried. I guess the same routine will be needed for your goo.
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2011 8:42:33 GMT
It's interesting to see the six weeks in context of aggression and hormone levels and here it makes sense. I wonder whether the six weeks in context of fertility (which are mentioned on several sites) originated in a confusion of the two and have subsequently been carried through from site to site (typical myth building on the web).
I do not believe that there are any hard data out there on which to base the period for which degu males need to be separated from receptive females. There are considerable differences between species and we don't know really know where degus are placed within in this range. Degutopia suggests a minimum of two weeks and we have heard that ady's vet suggested four weeks. As long as we don't know for sure, I would strongly suggest to err on the side of caution and keep the neutered male separated for four weeks.
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Post by philbailey1806 on Jun 5, 2011 8:48:49 GMT
Wow, confusing. Lol, so a post-partum oestrus cycle lasts 21 days? So my Edna might be pregnant again? I put Ernie back i after 5 days you see because degutopia said it would be fine after 4 and I was being careful. Also I couldn't have left Ernie out any longer, he was seriously depressed all by himself and Edna was struggling a bit with the 8 babies, so I thought it was for the best. Fingers crossed she's not pregnant again though!
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2011 9:14:54 GMT
No need to worry Phil. I think somewhere I may have expressed myself not clearly enough, as DC also misunderstood me. The oestrus cycle in adult degus is three weeks during which the females are receptive only for 1-2 days. After giving birth, the females have a post partum oestrus. There are no data on this but I would assume that the females are receptive for 2 days at most. Degutopia's four days are safe and with five days separation you don't have anything to worry about. There is no information available how females get back into their normal oestrus cycle after birth, only that they are not receptive until the pups are weaned. If lactation suppresses the oestrus, I would assume that they will get into oestrus shortly after lactation ends are then back to their normal 21 days cycle. I probably should put a disclaimer here but I feel confident to suggest that is is absolutely safe to leave dad with mum and pups from the day five to week five. I hope that helps to set you mind at peace
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Post by philbailey1806 on Jun 5, 2011 10:18:02 GMT
Phew! Thanks for clearing that one up fred! I understand now, was just confused by what DC said lol.
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Post by kovu07 on Jun 5, 2011 10:23:43 GMT
Did you have a bit of a panic there Phil? (Although with 8 babies already I can just imagine the look of horror on your face when you thought Edna might be pregnant again lol)
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Post by philbailey1806 on Jun 5, 2011 10:38:33 GMT
Ha ha! my jaw dropped! They're causing Edna and Ern a lot of trouble! theyre wandering around properly now and even nibbling on food! Have to say they aren't happy with sharing lol.
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Post by kovu07 on Jun 5, 2011 10:41:30 GMT
Haha I can imagine, no idea how Edna and Ernie manage to be honest, even the thought of having one child scares me to death let alone 8 at once lol
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Post by Ady on Jun 5, 2011 10:57:55 GMT
Thanks for all the posts. I phoned vet. As sam99 said, should keep it lubricated and push it in. If not better I'll take him to vet tmrw. What can i use to lubricated it apart from vaseline? Is baby oil any good? I use woodshaving in my cage. Shall I use something different? Can he be around others? Thanks again
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2011 11:39:52 GMT
I have seen K-Y jelly recommended as lubricant several times. Not sure whether you need to change bedding now as the penile prolaps is related to the neutering. I would probably see the vet tomorrow in any case.
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sam99
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 126
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Post by sam99 on Jun 5, 2011 13:54:26 GMT
Vet told me to use KY jelly as it's the safest lubricant.
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Post by Ady on Jun 5, 2011 16:19:29 GMT
Sorry, I meant if I should change the woodshaving while he's healing. He likes to dig in it and eventually it could be a bit sharp I guess? Do u think it's safe for him to be with others? I'll take him to vet tmrw.
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2011 17:43:44 GMT
Sorry ady, I usually try to not say anything about issues where I do not have experience and/or knowledge. I have seen the suggestion to use shredded paper or paper towels, but that was in a different context. I think it is also important not to upset the little fellow (btw what are dad's and mum's names?) more than absolutely necessary. If you think he won't mind the different bedding, it won't do any harm. If you can pick him (or the others) up easily - should it be necessary - then I would think that supervised time with others is a good thing. Hope this helps for the moment and that others with more experience will provide advice before long.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 5, 2011 21:00:49 GMT
Regretfully I have no personal experience with a penile prolapse, so am unable to advise on whether or not it is OK to keep him in with other degus. However, considering that he has been alone for a while, his social needs are paramount, in my mind, at this point. I would, as Fred suggests, at the very least give him supervised time with the others. I would also say that keeping him clean is of high importance, so if you can lay towels on the surfaces rather than wood shavings, it will protect him. Also, if you have cotton towels that you can use (like tea towels) I think that the cotton fabric will be the least abrasive and troublesome to his prolapsed member.
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Post by Ady on Jun 5, 2011 22:41:27 GMT
I used vaseline and it did get back in, although skin is still out. it looks a bit sore. He's been sleeping all day (was quite still even when I let him out of cage) so I put him back in with others. He sleeps in house with babies, it's lined with tea towels. He didn't eat (even treats) and seems to have problem pooing. He urinates ok. I'm getting worried. Will see vet tmrw. Will change bedding as well. Thanks for all suggestions
It's Eugene and Silver. Babies are Sheldon and Amy and 3 unnamed girls just yet.
Sorry,if my English is not correct. It's not my first language.
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Post by kovu07 on Jun 5, 2011 22:43:39 GMT
Your English is fine And please let us know what the vet says, I hope he gets better soon
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Post by Ady on Jun 6, 2011 14:37:04 GMT
Eugene is a bit better. More active and eats a bit. Vet says it looks like infection and probably it's not related to the neutering as that healed very well. I was wrong saying it's prolapse (I thought so as the whole thing was hanging out yesterday until I put Vaseline on). She suggested A)painkillers and antibiotics or B)put him under anesthesia and flush it out to make sure it's clear inside. Last time he had anesthesia it took him 1,5 day to eat again and he's only 185 grams right now (usually he's 225). Well, I went for the medication. Now I'm thinking if there's something stuck that causes the infection, it will need to be done anyway. Meanwhile he could loose more weight. He ate some fatty treats I gave him so hopefully he will start eating more soon. Another thing, as he was trying to fix it a lot, it looks like he gave himself little cut there with his front teeth. Shall I do something about that or better leave it? Thanx
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