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Post by teemu on Jan 15, 2022 11:25:40 GMT
My recent attempts to get Pipari acquainted with the others have made me think that a big part of the problem is that she's very prone to freaking out and starts screaming and running around like crazy of Posso or Pulla just move too quickly (even if they're literally not even looking at her). This is likely both because she's smaller than them and because she has had such a difficult past in a pet store. She just doesn't have the confidence required at all.
I've been thinking that for now, it would be for the best to focus on her getting used to me and confident that humans are friendly and protect her. She still often gets scared when someone moves past the cage, even if she has started to climb onto my hands. Then, when she's comfortable with things in her new home and me and my wife, it would be easier for her to have the nerves needed to meet with the others.
So for now, it might be for the best to just let them get used to each other passively by keeping the cages very close to each other and focus on making sure that Pipari feels safe, gets used to her owners and just feels like this is her home and that no one will do anything bad to her. And only then proceed with introductions. Does this sound sensible?
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 178
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Post by laiyah on Jan 15, 2022 12:56:14 GMT
I can't tell about integration from my side, but one of the things that have been working very well with the sudden movements, etc from me and my boyfriend, for my degus was something very dumb :
I would always say "Here I come" when I enter the room (and turn on the light switch). After a while, I sort of develop a noise for them to come to me and give them treats. Nowadays, whenever they start screaming, I would come to the cage and make that same noise. (In my case, it's like a knocking noise with my mouth) And they would come out of hiding and check. That would instantly stop the alarm.
But I do believe keeping them close will help them get used to the noise of the other parties.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 15, 2022 20:20:56 GMT
I think this is a good idea, especially considering the somewhat turbulent and chaotic nature of the personalities and social skills you have experienced in your degus when they came to you. I think in the past you have successully taken the role of kind and reliable friend to your degus and they have leaned on you when forging new relationships, it also gives you time to figure out Pipari a bit more so you will be able to read her behaviour better during introductions. Plus, generally, allowing more time for introductions is never a mistake. It must be pretty scary getting left alone in the pet shop.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 15, 2022 20:53:06 GMT
Definitely wait until she's more settled. If she's already freaking out, the others won't get an honest show of her feelings. You may then build unnecessary grudges. Oh, and do degus hold a grudge.....
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Post by teemu on Jan 16, 2022 15:27:02 GMT
Thanks, good to hear that the idea is sound. I definitely agree, Bouncy, that both Pulla and Posso were rather put off by the way she would freak out. Especially Pulla, who seems to have become the most passive lunk ever after being introduced to Posso (a very good development, honestly!). He doesn't have any issues with anyone at all, unless they make it one, and he definitely was not impressed when this little girl suddenly starts having a panic attack and jumping all over the place and pushing him around when he's just sitting there and doing nothing at all!
Pipari is starting to come out of her shell with me very nicely. I installed a perch under the cage door so that she could get there more easily, and now she's usually sitting at the door waiting for me when I open it! It's definitely the seeds doing the heavy lifting here, but with time, I'm quite convinced that she's going to become very sociable.
Though, I wonder whether it's the nerves or if she's actually having some issues, but she seems to have some trouble actually identifying the seeds on my hand sometimes. Degus usually find them no problem, but she seems a much less certain and spends a lot more time making sure that the seed is actually a seed before she snatches it. She seems totally healthy otherwise, and it doesn't look like she has issues with a clogged nose or something, she just doesn't seem to recognize the treats as easily.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 17, 2022 4:29:06 GMT
Any indications that she may have some sight issues?
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Post by teemu on Jan 19, 2022 19:11:41 GMT
Pipari is making great strides. She's no longer scared of me at all, and is warming up to my wife as well. She's also started building nests very confidently, so she obviously thinks (rightfully) that she owns the place  Deguconvert, I haven't seen any clear indicators of that. She seems to observe things like the others. It might just be that she's been hesitant about grabbing treats. I have noticed that she eats rather slowly and daintily in general (but she certainly does not seem to have dental issues, considering how much pellet she is eating!). |
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 19, 2022 22:03:09 GMT
I was more wondering if she doesn't have as sharp of vision as your other degus, and so is more easily frightened, or finds it harder to locate the treats on the palm of your hand.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 20, 2022 18:58:10 GMT
I was more wondering if she doesn't have as sharp of vision as your other degus, and so is more easily frightened, or finds it harder to locate the treats on the palm of your hand. There's certainly an indication in your video - she doesn't always find the seed when she leaps onto your palm. |
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Post by savvy on Jan 20, 2022 19:46:55 GMT
I'm wondering.... do degus have the same vision as rabbits? Rabbits cannot see either straight ahead or right behind because of the positioning of their eyes on the side of their heads. It gives them almost all round full vision so they can see predators except in those two areas. As they are both prey animals, could degus have the same limitations? In terms of finding food, smell would be the main sense which is how they manage to find the one tasty treat in a pile of hay. This explains it better www.vgr1.com/vision/ |
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Post by winic1 on Jan 21, 2022 4:53:40 GMT
It could also be that she simply does not really recognize them as treats, yet.
Our newest kitten/cat Charlie, who we've now had not quite 3 months, is the biggest food hog we've got. The slightest hint of a package rustling or food being dispensed, and there's this orange-white FLASH as he zooms in from even the farthest corners of the house. And this includes when treats are being dispensed, even just dog treats.
Yet, eager as he is, and as much as he eats, and as quickly as he scarfs down his food, he doesn't eat some of the cat treats, but plays with them a while (which lets Yeti, who becomes a freakin' shark when treats come out, steal them.) We have a variety of freeze-dried pure-meat cat treats. Charlie eats chicken and turkey treats right away, as the canned food we give them is generally turkey. But he has yet to figure out that minnows and shrimp are treats, not toys, and he's slowly learning that duck is food, not a plaything. The other cats will all eat their treats as fast as we hand them out, even toothless Lamborghini, and Yeti no longer waits to be handed his but takes it and your fingertip as fast as he can snatch them. Charlie does not yet know that all the different smell & types of treats are food. He's learning, if we can keep the other furry sharks off his treat long enough for him to finish playing with it, but he just doesn't seem to know what we're offering him.
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Post by teemu on Jan 21, 2022 20:01:49 GMT
Yeah, I've tried to look for any signs of obvious visual or other issues over the past few days, but I can't see obvious problems with anything... other than the fact that it takes her quite a bit of time to identify seeds on my palm. She's certainly already realised that they're yummy, she gets very excited when she hears the seed box being opened and comes over, but even when I offer her a seed, she carefully inspects it over and takes a couple of tentative nips before she seems to conclude that it's a seed. And she easily misses them when I just lay them on my palm. None of the others have had similar issues. It's hard to say for sure, and if she has issues, they seem to mostly be minor, something that only shows up with stuff like this. She's had no problem finding food or water, and is very sure-footed when she goes around the cage. Maybe I'll get more insight into it as I get to know her better. In any case, she keeps becoming braver very quickly. She even lets herself be picked up now, and doesn't seem scared at all My wife visited the pet store that Pipari came from today. Now they have another lone degu in there... I think it might be the "possible cagemate" they were trying to get her earlier. This one was way younger, probably just a bit over the minimum age, and now she's alone there as well. Not sure, but it's really unfortunate in any case... |
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 21, 2022 20:18:47 GMT
UGH! That is a frustrating thing to discover! Clearly they do not fully understand the importance for degus to have multiples, not singles. That poor little one will suffer.
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Post by teemu on Jan 22, 2022 14:00:10 GMT
Pipari still seems to be really concerned and stressed out over other degus. She had a small situation with Posso today when Posso came up to her cage (their cages are close to each other) and started posturing. Even though Posso quickly lost interest, Pipari was so stressed out over it that she's been randomly crying out and hiding for hours now. I put in a sight blocker for now, but she's obviously very scared that someone is going to try to take her home...
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Post by bouncy on Jan 22, 2022 14:48:58 GMT
If she's been kept alone for most of her life, she won't have been taught normal Degu behaviour. You need to be very patient with her. She's getting used to you, which gives her a safe place, but understanding a hooman treat dispenser and complex goo behaviour are two very different things. She'll get there!
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Post by teemu on Jan 22, 2022 15:11:41 GMT
If she's been kept alone for most of her life, she won't have been taught normal Degu behaviour. You need to be very patient with her. She's getting used to you, which gives her a safe place, but understanding a hooman treat dispenser and complex goo behaviour are two very different things. She'll get there!
Yeah, I trust that she will. After all, Pulla got there with way more social issues than her 
She's been with other degus before, but those degus have changed, and I think the initial impressions being bad have made her very nervous about P and P. I'll be taking things totally at the pace she feels comfortable with. They were doing kinda well until today, with both cages mostly ignoring the other, and everyone just occassionally peeking at what was happening in the other cage, but it seems like something set things off today. Hopefully, Pipari will settle down after she realises that nothing bad will happen to her even if the really snappy lady in the other cage gave her mean looks. She can't even see them any more, and P and P have been ignoring her since the incident.
Intresting sidenote: her coat seems to be getting darker. She was a very light sandy color when she came, but her fur is now gradually darkening to a light brown. I wonder what's caused that. Does that seem to be normal with sandy degus as they age?
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Post by bouncy on Jan 22, 2022 19:33:24 GMT
It's common for humans to change colour, so I guess goos can too. I know one of sarahc's pups (Scuttler?) had some lovely markings that didn't fully come out until she grew. I have a niece who was born ginger, then went blonde as a child, then brown. |
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Post by sarahc on Jan 22, 2022 19:50:28 GMT
It's common for humans to change colour, so I guess goos can too. I know one of sarahc's pups (Scuttler?) had some lovely markings that didn't fully come out until she grew. I have a niece who was born ginger, then went blonde as a child, then brown. Yeah scuttler started off quite light in colour then went dark agouti with white patches all over her if she ever stayed still long enough I'd get photos |
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Post by teemu on Jan 23, 2022 0:47:19 GMT
Well, after some more observation, the reason Pipari seems to be so shouty and on edge today is that she's in heat. She seems to behave very much like Suti, so screaming as loud as she can and lying around looking miserable.
It's kind of intresting that other degus usually don't seem to consciously recognize this as heat behavior, so Posso and Pulla have been sitting around looking very confused and a bit scared over all the shouting. I'm wondering, though, if degus naturally, through biology, sync up their heat cycles, to others in the area or if it's just a coincidence. All the girls here have their heats pretty much within a couple of days of each other, and Pipari suddenly got hers just a day or two after Posso's last one.
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 23, 2022 7:30:44 GMT
It is actually quite common for females that are living in close quarters to find their menses sync up. Even with humans females. They may not be in perfect sync, but they are often very near in dates.
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