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Post by Xellie on Mar 9, 2021 15:11:31 GMT
I'm not sure what happened, one of the oldest (there's like a month difference in age) was trying to mount one of the younger ones, and she was running away high speed and slamming against the side of the cage to get away. The other one didnt really follow and the others rallied around the scared one to calm her. (lots of chirping and grooming).
I had to leave the room for a few minutes and came back to the little one covered in blood - I can't tell where the bleed is exactly, its somewhere around the mouth/neck/upper chest and the aggressor covered in blood. The injured one's mates covered in blood where she's snuggled against them.
I've divided them into two sets of 3 for the moment. I'm really hopping I'll be able to get them all back together without an issue.
The older girls must be coming up to 5 months old... Could she be in heat?
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 9, 2021 18:53:56 GMT
She could be coming up to a heat, but this is also near enough to adolescence and dominance fighting that, that could be part of it as well. Domesticated degus have daily access to such high value nutrition that they are capable of being impregnated as young as 6 weeks of age . . . so she likely has had a few heats by now . . . and I think her age make both the heat and pursuit of dominance a reality.
I think it is wise that you have separated them. Have you been able to take a good look at the wound on the little ones neck?
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Post by Xellie on Mar 9, 2021 19:54:55 GMT
The bleeding has stopped, she's not too happy for me to inspect her. She's very freaked out.
So right now I have 2 sets of 1 big + 2 small that are very peaceful.
Given that my boys are a year old this week, I'm debating if neutering them and trying a 1 boy 3 girls set up would work to create 2 stable groups.
Looked in a little closer. (Her behaviour is fine other than a "I don't want to be held" strop) It's a small wound, blood just has the ability to spread everywhere.
I think I've picked the right two to stay with her. Her snuggle buddy (they come on to my hand together) and the biggest who snuggles up with her most. They cleaned up her wounds and stayed by her when this happened.
The one that attacked is actually the second biggest of the group.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 10, 2021 0:18:58 GMT
So if I have to keep these two separate now, do you think its possible to maintain a good relationship with the 4 others, through playdates and the such?
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Post by savvy on Mar 10, 2021 0:23:25 GMT
I think only time will answer that one for you. You know what degus can be like....
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Post by Xellie on Mar 10, 2021 0:28:06 GMT
Well yes, I suppose that is true! I've had a lot of feedback saying reintegrating them probably won't work after blood is drawn, but maybe they will defy the odds.
Choosing how to divide them is so hard.... They all have different relationships to each other. One of them with the aggressor group (who is usually a bit more stand-offish) has been climbing all over me un an unusual case of affection.
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Post by savvy on Mar 10, 2021 1:02:19 GMT
There have been cases when they've reintergrated really well after blood was drawn, it's not always impossible. I think a lot depends on what the argument was about and we've no really way of knowing that, we can only surmise.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 10, 2021 2:29:03 GMT
I'm pretty sure its hormones. she looks a bit different underneath, if that makes sense.
I really hope im not on a list for all the searches I do on google...
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Post by savvy on Mar 10, 2021 10:35:25 GMT
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 10, 2021 11:45:45 GMT
You are in a good position. Being able to divide into two groups of 3 is great, everyone is in a perfectly good social group and can live a happy life. I think what you do now is potentially down to your feelings and choice as much as the degus. You could try to keep everyone familiar with everyone else and this may improve your chances or getting everyone back together at some point, BUT it could further destabilise the groups you now have. It depends on your feelings about numbers of groups and cage sizes and so on.
You are likely to have high levels of hormones going around for arouond 18 months now if your oldest girls are around 5 months. Sometimes it's best to just wait this out.
The one who was all over you when she usually isn't may have been scent marking and/or claiming your or checking out the scent markings already on you, probably as a response to the fighting.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 10, 2021 17:37:42 GMT
If I have these girls and there's a chance this will just happen every 3 weeks, I think I'm gonna need a spare cage on hand. (although I hope that this one will be the only one to get so nasty, I haven't seen such behaviour out of the other oldest one - she's extremely nice to the younger ones.)
They are clearly distressed about being split (the 4 others) so I think I might try and keep them feeling like one group for now.
I also have 2 boys who bicker somewhat that could potentially stabilize two groups in the future.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 10, 2021 18:40:43 GMT
I'm currently just watching who interacts with who to try and make the best fit. The two bigger sisters aren't really bothered by the presence of each other in any way, so I think/hope splitting one big sister and then two of each will keep them mostly stable.
The four little ones clearly miss each other too but not as much as they seem to miss the biggest. It's such a hard choice to make.
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Post by bouncy on Mar 10, 2021 22:29:40 GMT
It's always rough when there's a breakdown in what was a happy group, but hormones will be rife for the next 12 months or so Perhaps there was some disagreement over who got the middle spot in your palm? Lol I hope you find a solution. Perhaps Banshee and Buddy won't mind having their bits snipped to join the ladies, but would they miss each other?
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Post by Xellie on Mar 11, 2021 0:18:18 GMT
I'm considering it, but Banshee is really unstable, so it's scary. I could be wrong and he could really like having more friends. He's very dominant and doesn't share anything except his hammock.
He gets upset if he so much as encounters new food. This all said there's always a chance the boys will fall out anyway, their fights border on vicious, there's always scratched noses afterward. (I've seen three bad fights from them since October)
So my thoughts are Do I get the boys snipped "just in case" and to keep this as a future option? It would probably be wise since Mocha finds new ways to escape every day and is always visiting the boys cage, I swear one day I'm gonna wake up to pups.
(Banshee and buddy should be 12 months "mid march" - this is what I was told of their birth date, so I've been braced for another 6 months or so of aggression between those two, and hope they calm down.)
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Post by Xellie on Mar 11, 2021 17:18:39 GMT
Yesterday I introduced them through the bars and there was some tooth grinding and a bit of an attempt to get eachother.
I just did the same today, and they were sniffing, no aggression, no teeth grinds, no tail thumps.
Fingers crossed.
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Post by bouncy on Mar 11, 2021 17:49:35 GMT
I'm just hoping for your sake the bloodshed is still just hormonal, and hasn't become a grudge. Fingers crossed for you
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Post by Xellie on Mar 11, 2021 17:53:30 GMT
it seemed a lot less aggressive, I put her in for a bit with everyone and Bryn did ignore her for a while, but then there was some chasing. It wasn't persistent but everyone looked scared. So the bulllied one is back out for a bit - she'll have a playdate with everyone but the attacker for a few hours before I divide them 3 + 3 for the night again.
I'm wondering if I need to build ... well... jail inside the girls cage for when this happens.
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Post by bouncy on Mar 11, 2021 18:18:12 GMT
Have you tried removing the aggressor? Spidey used to have particularly aggressive moments to one of his brothers. Rather than remove the victim, I would put Spidey into the carry cage, then place that level with the most popular cage level, about two feet away. The time out was like a naughty step. Timeout varied from an hour to a day, and he always went back in chastised and sullen. I've only had to do it a handful of times.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2021 18:21:24 GMT
Just . . . don't move too fast . . . make sure they continue in that no aggression direction before trying a face to face again.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 11, 2021 18:28:39 GMT
Well right now I have them 3 + 3, with the 4 uninvolved spending a couple of hours together with each goo that was in the fight. (I'm just trying to make sure everyone remains friends where they can) - so far they seem fine with this, but I'm sure if it goes on long term there will be some issues.
I had to grab the victim because she was covered in blood, I didn't have time to think about who to remove - I just picked her up and the two that were sitting with her and slid a floor tile over the hole to the lower cage to divide them.
But, given that the aggression seems lessened, I'm more hopeful an introduction can be done if I have to isolate her for being horrible.
If it's hormones, this is day 3, so this all matches up nicely with what I've read about them being mean in heat. I'm thinking of building a not-too-little time out pen in the main cage for reintroducing her - especially if this happens again.
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