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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 11:12:01 GMT
Hi, back in January we adopted three male degus from pets at home, dad who was about 1year old and two sons about 4 months old, well on Thursday my daughter went to clean them out and found loads of eyes peeping at her from inside of their hammock bed! So I phoned pets at home to ask what to do, I didn’t know if dad would eat the babies, if dad needed separating etc I told them I was taking them to the vets and they said all bills would be paid for by them. So we go to the vets and discover that the two sons are actually female!!!! So I may have more babies to come says the vet 😳 oh and mum may also be pregnant again 😳😳 she looked in the hammock and discovered 8 very cute and adorable healthy looking babies about 2-3 days old. We are taking the babies back in to our vets in about two weeks to have them sexed. Dad Dave had a sleepover at the vets and came home yesterday day a little lighter and pets at home true to their word paid for the vets fees. They have also provided nuggets, hay with alfalfa, an alfalfa grass ring thing to hang in the cage, a small house and a grassy tunnel thing. They have said to go back when I need more food etc and to just ask if I need another cage. My questions are how old are they before they can become pregnant? (As this could be a vicious circle with so many babies) how old do they have to be before they can be rehomed? What extra veggies and seeds do I need to provide to help mum? Should I ask for another cage an if so which one? Is there anything else I will need for the babies that I should ask pets at home for? Any other info would be great, I have been reading other posts in your babies section and can’t believe how many mistakes have been made by pets at home!!! thanks guys
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 12:01:56 GMT
Oh the curse of pets at home strikes again, lol!
What a wonderful surprise!
You will need to permanently separate dad as he can and will impregnate all of the girls when they are old enough and as you say mum may be expecting again.
You will need to baby proof the cage to stop any accidents as the pups are fully active in every sense but common sense, lol.
Mum will need lots of high quality foods such as seeds, Timothy hay as opposed to alfalfa (if memory serves, alfalfa is a high sugar grass and not great in large quantities for degus), forage, maybe a nut as a reward for being such a clever mum. If pets at home are footing the bill for foods etc, they do bags of forage such as apple and blackberry leaves, dandelion, etc - they are part of their woodlands range.
The pups will be sexually active from about 8-10 weeks for the males. At 7 weeks, the male pups can go in with dad so there are two groups. Rehoming can take place after about 7-8 weeks.
The next few weeks are going to be such hectic fun the time will fly by. I'm so so jealous, lol.
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 12:09:04 GMT
Ok, so dad was castrated yesterday so is he ok to stay in with the the other two females as the vet said degu dads are hands on with the babies and help mum. They were on just plain Timothy hay but pets at home advised Timothy hay with alfalfa in! 😤 and I will ask for some of their woodland range stuff
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 12:12:57 GMT
I have just checked the hay they gave me and it’s just Timothy hay made by alfalfa king! I’m worried now they don’t know what they are talking about
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 12:14:47 GMT
They do make excellent dad's. But he will still very able to impregnate the girls for another 6 weeks. It takes that long for any residual sperm to clear his system. After that he can go in with his ladies. But, the damage may already be done and you might have two pregnant girls on your hands already. The problem will be when the second one gives birth as she can become pregnant again within 24hours of delivering and if this is within dad's 6 week still fertile window, there is the possibility of a fourth litter.
I know there's a lot of ifs and buts here, but the time scales are quite tight.
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 12:16:37 GMT
I have just checked the hay they gave me and it’s just Timothy hay made by alfalfa king! I’m worried now they don’t know what they are talking about That should be great.
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 12:25:30 GMT
ok thanks for advising that about dad, what cage should I ask pets at home for? As I have nothing else to put him in, for now I could put him in the top half of the cage and block access to the bottom where the babies and other adults are, would this be ok?
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 12:27:31 GMT
Remind me what cage you have.
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 12:29:54 GMT
It’s a cozy pet RC03
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Post by winic1 on Apr 6, 2019 12:31:28 GMT
Dad needs to be separated from the females for at least 6 weeks to allow any remaining fertility to die off (being castrated removes his testicles, so he cannot make new sperm, but there is a supply of already-made sperm in his system that castration does not remove).
Adult females can become pregnant again IMMEDIATELY after birth. As in hours. Nature's way of getting two litters in during the good growing season, have them back to back as quickly as possible.
Baby girls can potentially get pregnant at 6 weeks old. Baby boys can be fertile as early as 7 weeks in some cases.
So, Dad should be out of there for another 6 weeks to be sure he doesn't do something again.
It is likely the other female is pregnant, also. It is possible that Mom is already pregnant.
What cage did you get from Pets At Home? Most likely it is way too small for your original 3 degus to begin with (they have never cared that they sell unsuitable cages and give bad advice), and it certainly cannot be big enough for 11 degus, let alone the additional babies you may possibly have coming soon. They owe you at least TWO additional cages right now--one for dad during his isolation, and a second one for Mom and the babies. People on here can tell you how to join two cages to make a bigger, better cage.
In just a couple of weeks, those baby degus are going to be running all over that cage like little maniacs, they will need more room. Right now, you have to remove any hazards to keep them safe, as they will be toddling out and about within a few days. Take out the wheel, if they go under or behind it and one of the big degus starts running, it can be disastrous. Take out the sandbath except when you are there to supervise (they can fall into it, and not be able to get themselves out). Look for high places they could fall from, and rearrange so that they either cannot get up there, or so that there is a nice easy pathway back down, make ramps or put things next to each other. Look for tiny spaces they could squeeze into and get stuck. Think of it like having 8 tiny toddlers hyped on on candy running loose, and look for the hazards.
Mom will need much much more food than normal, she is feeding 8 rapidly growing degus. Make sure there is always an excess of food available. In a few weeks, the babies will start sampling food too, even tho they will be nursing until 5 weeks or so, so you may need to increase the food available then.
If you use a water bowl, that has to change, also. They could fall in and drown. So, you have to use something so shallow that that cannot happen, or change to something that they cannot drown in. You can't change to a waterbottle overnight, even the adults have to learn how to use one first if they haven't. So, something tiny or shallow or narrow that isn't hazardous will be necessary, if the adults aren't using a water bottle now.
Oh, is your cage made of bars, or a grid? If it is bars, how wide apart is the bar spacing? Babies can get out of anything bigger than 1/2" (which is what, about 12mm?) If so, secure cardboard or wire mesh or something around the bottom of the cage so they cannot get out, until they grow a little bigger.
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 12:33:03 GMT
That would work, just make sure the barrier is secure and can't be breached. Dad will probably be better separated while he recovers from his surgery.
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 12:46:30 GMT
Hi winic1 I didn’t get my cage from pets at home I got a cozy pet RC03 from cozy pet, I liked it for size and the fact it had 9mm bar spacing (as we have cats and didn’t want no paws in there) it’s 3ft wide, 4ft4 high (actual cage space not including leg space underneath) an 2ft2 deep, has 4 floors an we replaced all metal ladders with wooden, but I am asking what cage do I ask for from pets at home as they have about 6 different ones?
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 13:02:09 GMT
Thanks savvycat a piece of heavy slate blocks the hole in the floor down to the next level. Thank you to you an winic1 for the knowledge and advice you have given. We are still pretty new to degus so this is a lot to take in, but I am looking forward to fun times with the babies running around 😁 at what age can we start handling the babies?
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Post by savvy on Apr 6, 2019 13:11:56 GMT
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 13:19:00 GMT
Thanks savvycat that’s the one I was just looking at
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 6, 2019 16:44:08 GMT
The alfalfa is fine, it's high in calcium and protein which are useful for nursing and growing babies. Ask them for some of the forage products, herbs, flowers, leaves are all ideal, you could get a couple of different hays and Readigrass. Get the Science Selective degu nuggets and if they will let you get the Woodlands grain free guinea pig food www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/woodlands-grain-free-cold-pressed-guinea-pig-nuggets-2kg After a few weeks youngsters require more food than adults. Some degu oil seeds from Ratrations would be useful for mum and babies. Technically for 8 extra degus you need at least two Liberta Explorers. Don't let them force you into a thickets cage (~90x60x60cm). You can handle the babies after a few days but let the mum guide you as to when she feels comfortable.
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Post by heather11 on Apr 6, 2019 17:15:44 GMT
Thank you moletteuk do you mean I need two extra cages along side the cage I already have? And I was going to tell them the liberta explorer is the only one suitable 😁
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Post by winic1 on Apr 6, 2019 17:36:56 GMT
Yes, for 8 more degus, you need 2 Liberta explorers, and should still add extra shelves to make more floor space. If you have more babies, you will need more cages. In 5-6 weeks, you will need to separate boys from girls, so depending on how many total males and females you have, you will need at least one cage for each gender, and probably two cages for whichever gender you have the most of.
But don't panic over this! Once the babies are old enough to leave the parents, you can separate them into appropriate smaller groups, and then offer them for rehoming complete with cage and all. That should help with finding them new homes, unless you want to keep 11 or more degus yourself. (If I had the room, I would be tempted to do so....)
Cages can also be joined side by side to make wonderfully huge degu environments that can then hold much larger family groups.
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Post by deguconvert on Apr 6, 2019 19:04:53 GMT
Hi Heather! I don't have to add anything! LOL! All that I would have said has already been offered! I think the second Liberta is the one you absolutely should insist on, don't give any quarter! What is lovely, is that you can, as already mentioned, DIY them together and have an excellent length of running space. You could have the males in the top half and the females below. It would be AWESOME!! Naturally that also depends on the space you have within your home. That is a lot of cage to make accommodations for. However, pups are extremely active and require a lot of space, they eat like they are five time bigger than they are (invisible, extra large, hollow legs and bellies to fill), and they are intensely comical and adorable. Since P@H has also said they will help with food, hold them to it! You will be astonished by how quickly the food disappears, especially once the pups start to eat solids, which they will start testing out by the time they are a week old.
Don't separate the pups from Mum before six weeks of age. They need all that time for social education, as well as just basic degu smarts. Male pups must be separated from the females before they reach eight weeks of age. Seven weeks is probably a good safe time, as recommended by Winic.
I actually have a bit of a controversial thought about having Dad separated. YES . . . he will do his darnedest to impregnate, which is definitely NOT something you want. At the same time, your little momma is only about 7 months old . . . which is not so bad as the 3 months I was working with in my mind at first . . . but there is so much that Dad can help with teaching. Maybe I should ask if you can post us a photo of the other "son" to see if she is pregnant as well?
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Post by bouncy on Apr 6, 2019 21:47:23 GMT
Poor Dave! Like the others say, he is still fertile until his little swimmers have all left his system. If you're certain the other lady is expecting, I guess you could leave him with her and separate out the mum with pups? To do this, though, you'll need to keep a close eye on mum two and remove Dave as soon as she starts to give birth.
Everyone else has said the rest!
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