rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 9, 2019 13:28:18 GMT
Hi all,
I’ve not been on here for a couple years and then a few years before that. I’m having a dilemma now about my degu Ava.
I live in Bristol in the UK and oj the 29th of January, while at work, I got a call to say my flat was on fire and I needed to get home. My 2 guinea pigs and my degu Ava were alive but sadly my degu Sasha passed away due to smoke inhalation. I still struggling with that guilt. The fire was caused by an overheated extension lead as I had accidentally left a vacuum on charge.
I didn’t think Ava would make it for a while as she was in too much pain to eat or drink and forcing her wasn’t working but eventually she got better and is now ok although she’s sad. I never planned to get more degus after her and Sasha for many reasons. I don’t want her to be lonely though and she is. I’m still watching her for health reasons and she’s lost weight lately so trying to get that up. The vet can’t see anything wrong so we’re thinking she’s just not feeling great at the moment so eating less. She’s still eating though and she’s getting critical care but I’m worried I won’t have the time to spend with her. We’ve only just moved back into the refurbished flat so she’s still settling.
I know she should be with other degus and that she’d be happier with that but my dilemma is that I’m absolutely terrified of giving her up. I am overcome with anxiety anytime I think about it. With me she is so loved and gets fed all the right things and I’m always willing to pay whatever is needed for vet bills for any of my animals and I know not everyone will or is bothered about the details. I’m scared she won’t be let out every day and just ignored. I’ve looked on rehoming pages on Facebook but it always leaves me feeling like I can’t give her up because the people I come across don’t seem knowledgeable. I’d like her to go to someone who has quite a few degus really but don’t know how to find her the right person.
I won’t give her to a shelter, I won’t know who ends up with her and how well they’ll look after her so I just can’t do that so please don’t suggest that. I got her from a shelter 3 and a half years ago so don’t know how old she is but they thought she was young at the time. I’ve done a few successful intros but I took hers very slowly so it took about 6 months to pair her with Sasha. I had 2 pairs and when my degu rose died they excepted her pair Smartie and lived as a threesome until Smartie died last year.
I love her so much but really struggling to give her up but as I know I don’t want more I know it’s not fair on her. I worry if I do give her up that I’ll feel guilty about it forever. Just thinking about all of it makes me cry.
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Post by degulover21 on Mar 9, 2019 14:50:05 GMT
Hey Rambam. sorry to hear about your degu Sasha it was an accident. we're human accidents happen we weren't made to be perfect. I know that won't help with the guilt. I can understand your anxiety I suffer from terrible anxiety just leaving my degus to go to work is hard. the reason you're anxious is that you love her and want the best care for her which is obvs understandable. I was talking to my dad about never getting more degus after my 4 they live in pairs. the reason for this is I don't want to replace them but I'm trying to bond them together so they are in a bigger group so they won't be lonely when one passes(which of cause is heartbreaking thinking about) and the thought of even giving them up all destroys me. I'm always worried about them etc are they healthy, are they happy, do I look after them well, am I neglecting them cos I'm working. sorry if this doesn't help, The other degu members will help you. I just wanted you to know what your feeling is normal it's not stupid.
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Post by randomname on Mar 9, 2019 15:35:05 GMT
Aww DL you made me cry. rambam Hi, I think we've met before. I'm so sorry to hear about what's happening with you. DL is right - your anxiety is using your love for Ava to torture you - & as someone else with bad anxiety that sounds totally normal to me. Anxiety latches onto your deepest fears & uses the things you love to insert horrible thoughts into your head. It's called intrusive thinking - you conjure up the worst case scenario & can't let it go. It's what's behind many anxiety conditions like OCD or PTSD. Honestly, you've been through trauma. Do not underestimate that. My friend had a house fire caused by a candle that horrifically injured her grown up grand son. She says she struggles with guilt too, even though from the outside we can see it was a tragic accident that could happen to anyone. it's the same for you - it's NOT your fault at all. It could easily happen to anyone. You did not do anything that other people do not do. You did not intentionally start a fire, you did not do anything wrong I promise you. You probably half know that, but I know how difficult it is to convince your brain too. You don't have to make any decisions now. Take the pressure off yourself for now. You have listed all the things you are concerned about, all of which are valid, but none of which are set in stone or need to be dealt with now. Concentrate on you & Ava settling into your new place. You should try to get trauma focused counselling if you can - believe me when I say if you don't address your feelings sooner rather than later you'll regret it. If you're having trouble sleeping, having nightmares, checking plugs & safety all the time or are feeling anxious to the point it's interfering with your life please try to find help for that. Dealing with it now can mean the difference between having anxiety you can learn to manage & full blown PTSD. Ava's been through a lot & is probably discombobulated. I'm sure time will heal most of that for her as animals are so much better at living in the now than we are. Once you get into a routine & she's happy in the new place (which could take a few months) she'll be brighter I'm sure. I adopted a lovely chinchilla who lived through a bad house fire & he did really well so please don't think she'll always be sad. It's probably true she'd like some degu company, it'd probably overwhelm her right now, so I would put that on the back burner too. Just focus on the feeding & playing with her, let her know she's safe & loved. That's all she needs right now I think. She might be able to pick up that you're sad, especially if she brings out that feeling in you (which would be exactly how I'd feel) but I'll tell you something I've learned from taking in so many unwanted little ones over the years - they don't really care as long as they're happy now. That 3 legged dog that makes us go "awww" doesn't care he's got 3 legs, he's just being a dog. That cat who got rescued from drain is over it a few months later in his new home, even though his new owners will always carry that image in their heads, puss cat is just happy to be fed, warm & loved. It's only us that carry stuff around with them like that. The best thing you can do for her is normal degu stuff & try to heal your own heavy heart. The care you give her is amazing & it's enough for now. Any other decisions can be made in the future when you're feeling calmer & stronger. Don't rush yourself or your furry friends. Sorry for the long reply, I just want you to know you're not alone. We get it, we understand & we support you. Wise words someone once said to me that always help put things into perspective for me : "If your best friend was going through exactly what you're going through, what would you advise her? Would you be as harsh with her as you are with yourself? Would you pressure her like you pressure yourself?"
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 9, 2019 16:01:50 GMT
Hi, nice to see you, I'm sorry you've had such a terrible time.
If you aren't in a hurry, then hopefully, all fingers crossed, you might find a nice home for Ava here on the forum. We don't have many members in your part of Britain, but you never know and people might be happy to help with transportation if she needs to travel further afield. I don't know the background to your thoughts/ feelings/ circumstances about not taking on more, but another way to get a good long term outcome could be for you to find her a friend and do introductions and then rehome them as a pair. Of course I understand if you prefer to rule this out. If you needed to look further, maybe you could look on rehoming groups for someone looking specifically for a companion for another single degu, this would be demonstrating a certain level of commitment.
Perhaps you might like to make a post in our adoption area and we can keep an ear out for you too.
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Post by degulover21 on Mar 9, 2019 16:42:44 GMT
I'm sorry Randomname. They said my anxiety was most likely linked to OCD. I used to have CBT which helps lots. I get thoughts I wish that would go away and I'm always overthinking as soon as they lose weight I go into a full-on freak-out mode and always think the worse. I used to embarrassed about the things I do before leaving the house. OCD behavior, examples making sure the window is locked, make sure all the wires are all unplugged, making sure they have water and can drink from it.make sure they can't chew anything outside the cage. my worse one is making sure the cage door is locked this one is hard for me because as soon as I get in the car my mind is racing with thoughts about if they've got out or I haven't locked the cage,will they die. To me these thoughts are so real they probs sound silly to everyone else but that is anxiety. it got so bad I even brought a camera to watch but then send it back.
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Post by randomname on Mar 9, 2019 17:21:33 GMT
Hey DL - I meant you made me cry in a good way it was so lovely to see you reach out in such a caring, understanding way. I'm glad you replied as you really do get it & what you wrote was so sweet xx Your fears don't sound daft to me, your anxiety has just ramped everything up to 100. I hate how anxiety seems to hijack people who always seem to be so nice, it's like your brain says "Oh you care about something? Let me amplify everything so it becomes unbearable for you!" Those that don't care never seem to worry. Remember anxiety isn't all you are though - you're sweet, kind, caring & lovely too
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Post by bouncy on Mar 9, 2019 18:00:51 GMT
I only have boys, or I'd offer to help out I do, however, go down to Brizzle on a regular basis (as I was on Tuesday), so I'm more than happy to help with transportation if you manage to find a good home for Ava. Fires, unless an arsonist is involved, are an accident, and you can in no way blame yourself. I leave my vacuum plugged in on charge whenever I'm not using it, and have never thought twice about it. It is perfectly normal to have some sort of separation anxiety - you left Sasha and Ava to go to work, and you're worried about what else might happen when you're not there. It'll take time to get over such a trauma, both for you and Ava. It sounds as though she is heartbroken and depressed over the loss of Sasha, so extra attention (if possible) and perhaps a goo-sized cuddly toy will help for now. I know it's not something you would have considered before but, under these circumstances, would you consider taking a friend for Ava? That would remove your anxiety about giving her up, and provide her with the goo company she's missing. I'm sure there are other lonely ladies out there looking for a furry friend.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 9, 2019 18:21:49 GMT
Rambam it is so good to see you!! I'm really sorry about the very difficult start you have had to this year, and the tragic loss of Sasha. I wish I could give you a long hug and then chat for a few hours just to catch up. I am especially sorry for the great distress you are now having in regard to Ava and her continued health and happiness, and the questions that plague you about her home. Those are very difficult questions, made even harder by the anxiety you feel for her safety and longevity.
I was going to suggest as Bouncy has, that even though you have been decided that you don't want another degu, maybe changing your mind in this very unexpected circumstance would not be a bad thing? For the benefit of both yourself and Ava? Do you fear that if you did bring in another degu, you would be angry with yourself at some point in the future?
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Post by degulover21 on Mar 9, 2019 18:59:42 GMT
Hey DL - I meant you made me cry in a good way it was so lovely to see you reach out in such a caring, understanding way. I'm glad you replied as you really do get it & what you wrote was so sweet xx Your fears don't sound daft to me, your anxiety has just ramped everything up to 100. I hate how anxiety seems to hijack people who always seem to be so nice, it's like your brain says "Oh you care about something? Let me amplify everything so it becomes unbearable for you!" Those that don't care never seem to worry. Remember anxiety isn't all you are though - you're sweet, kind, caring & lovely too yeah the CBT says the ocd and anxiety always seem to target the most caring people. I always try to help out when I can I hate seeing people upset. I maybe not be the most intelligent person:)
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rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 9, 2019 21:31:44 GMT
Hi all, Thank you for your kind words. It’s been a hard start to the year. My anxiety is up there but I don’t feel too worried about another fire although I do make sure to turn everything off after using now. I’d beg you all to do the same and to only use an extension lead with a surge protector and not a cheap one! I won’t ever make that mistake again! I’m feeling very stressed in general as had to stay with my parents in a small room filled with junk (they hoard like crazy) and couldn’t let any of the animals out which made things probably a lot worse for her. I’ve got Ava in the living room at the mo as it’s a lot brighter in there, she’s next to the guinea pigs. She chats to them but they’re wimps and scared of her so I’d never let them out together as I know she’d climb on them and they’d end up hurting her out of fear (she’s done this before but I put my hand in the way to protect her and got bit instead). I’ll try and find a small toy for her to cuddle up to. I may do as moletteuk said eventually, and post in the adoption section and see what happens. At least I know people on here care about their animals and know how to take care of them properly. I love her so much but I really don’t think I can get more. Since September 2017 I have lost 3 degus and 1 guinea pig. The heartbreak of losing them is enough but if I get another at some point they will be alone as well and it’s ongoing. I love them a lot and they are amazing animals but also hard work. I can’t ever leave them with anyone as none of my friends or family particularly like small animals and the last time I went on holiday I came back to one of them missing half a tail as she was scared of my neighbour trying to get her back in the cage after playtime and she caught it in the back of some drawers. So I don’t go away ever. I’m single so don’t have any help with them either which is fine, it’s always been fine but I’d like to have more freedom eventually. They also destroy a lot and have ruined carpets, doors, skirting boards and walls and I live in a rented flat which has now been fully refurbished so getting more won’t help with trying to keep the place together. Ava has actually been the worst of all of the degus I’ve had for destroying lol Sorry to rant, I really do love her and the others that I’ve had but this is all going toward why I didn’t want more. If I bond her with another now with intentions of rehoming them both then I’ll never do it either because I’ll still worry about who’s taking them. degulover21 I totally understand the irrational fear that anxiety brings. I always think about what would happen if I was to die suddenly, I know my family wouldn’t want my pets and I worry who they’d give them to and what would happen. I’m definitely coping better than I thought I would be, a lot less has happened in the past to trigger my depression and anxiety but I seem to be holding up although I’m feeling exhausted and sad. bouncy that would be amazing if the time comes. I don’t drive which makes life hard sometimes. I could probably bribe a friend to drive me somewhere if need be though. randomname thank you, I know it’s been a lot to go through and actually was in counselling before the fire and only recently cancelled my sessions as I wasn’t getting what I needed from them. Once things have settled I will start looking again. Everyone is right though, I need to just settle and let Ava settle before doing anything. I need to spend time with her and get her back to herself and see how things are. I feel like such a terrible and selfish person for not wanting more, I love animals so much and all of the ones I’ve looked after I have loved more than anything but just know I can’t keep them forever. I work really long hours now as well and by the time I get home I’m exhausted. I just don’t want her to feel neglected and lonely. Sorry that was so long!
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rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 9, 2019 22:21:02 GMT
Have her out now which is the first proper time in over a month. Let her out yesterday but didn’t sit and play with you. You reminded me to actually sit and play with her. All my degus have known the command “kiss” and also could spin around on command and Ava has never been good at it so working on that and spending some quality time together. X
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 9, 2019 23:46:13 GMT
Don't worry about the length of your post, love. You have a lot on your mind and in your heart, and it benefits you to be heard! There is no judgment . . . life doesn't always accommodate our wants and needs, nor consider the state of our hearts and minds . . . and frequently completely disregards the start of our pocket book. Life is not a beach or a bowl of cherries.
I'm glad that you are spending time with Ava this evening! Just doing each day could make a big difference to both of you, and when the right home is available, you will know she is happy and healthy and in good shape for her new adventure. We will hope with you, that the right home is found in the right time for both of you.
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rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 10, 2019 0:12:20 GMT
deguconvert thank you, I really appreciate your kindness. X
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 10, 2019 20:35:40 GMT
I understand your feelings about not wanting more degus. I couldn't have enjoyed my degus more but I've been spending all my spare time in the dining room with the degus for 18 months now due to wanting to keep an eye on ill degus, and I haven't had a holiday for about 5 years because I can't get holiday cover either, I came home to 2 degus with strained legs last time and my mum hadn't even noticed.
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Post by mschips on Mar 10, 2019 22:44:15 GMT
My heart is breaking for you, rambam. I have been a guinea pig person all of my life (rescues) until I recently adopted my adult degus from a shelter. I know that I am not a degu expert and that they are social and need other degus, but I will still boldly suggest that it sounds like you need each other. There are no perfect pet parents or homes; some are downright abusive and terrible; the best are loving, competent and responsible and very human. Because you are so caring and want the perfect home for your degu, Ava, I understand why you believe you need to be unselfish and do what's best for her. As someone on the outside I see a loving and dedicated degu mom who has a strong mutual bond with Ava. Her situation with you now as a single goo is not perfect but it just may be the best and most loving home for her.
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Post by morton235 on Mar 10, 2019 23:11:36 GMT
Oh man, Rambam I'm so sorry for your loss and circumstance I completely understand your concerns over rehoming, I'm currently going through the same thing with one of my girlies, Bounce. She is a rescue and came from horrific conditions, and deciding to part with her is honestly the hardest decision I've ever had to make and is gutting. I'm terrified that she won't be cared for properly. I fully understand the fear of her not being looked after properly, not being let out, given as much space, interacted with or loved like you do. You know how much your love her, and finding someone who would love and care for her like you do feels impossible. But there are those people out there - this forum proves it Don't give up! I understand your apprehension on the rehoming pages. Heck, just today there was someone wanting to rehome their goo because he was on his own, and the only comments were about five different people saying 'nah he's fine, I have a lone degu and she's perfectly happy on her own blah blah'. If I could slap through a screen, I would! My post about Bounce does state that anyone interested will be basically interrogated, haha. But you'll find that people who are genuine won't care about that - personally, were I to adopt, the more questions asked about me and my situation the happier I'd be! I know you said about not wanting to use a rescue, and again it's something I completely understand - you want to meet the person rehoming your little Ava and want to make sure she goes to a good home. That being said, I'll just mention Notts Nibblers. They are literally the only rescue I'd consider, if it ever came to it. They have a two week assessment period for new arrivals, minimum cage size requirements, and aren't afraid to refuse rehoming to people. I totally understand not wanting to though, and for me it would be a 100% last resort, but they take incredibly good care of their animals. Have a look at their set ups on their website and facebook page. They're the sort of people that, if they were to want to rehome Bounce as a permanant resident with themselves, I'd let them in a heartbeat They are very big on bonding and keeping social animals in pairs/groups. I never actually knew bonding gerbils was a thing until these guys! If you're struggling with spending time with Ava on a busy day, try using a scarf wrapped loosely around your neck for her to snuggle in on an evening, my boy likes to fall asleep in mine whilst I unwind or watch a film, or you can buy purpose made material 'pouches' for this. They're made for socialising/taming pets, but I imagine would also work very well for special snuggle time. Are you able to build a play pen? There are really good threads on here for how to make one, mine cost about £30 to make but is waaayy bigger than it needs to be so you could make a smaller one for less and it would stop her from nibbling things she shouldn't. If I have a busy day I eat my lunch sitting in the play pen with Bounce, so she gets time outside the cage and interaction, but she gets it whilst I'm also nourishing myself so it's not time 'lost'. I completely understand your anxiety and pain over what to do. Reading your post was like looking in a mirror for my own emotions with Bounce. Whatever you do, know that it is coming from a place of pure love for this girl and will be whatever you believe is best for her If you think rehoming her is best, you can put her out there when you're ready and see if anyone suitable pops up. If they do, ask whatever you need to ask to make yourself feel comfortable. I've already had interest in Bounce, but no one suitable/with suitable degus. Ask for their experience, details on their degus personality, photos of their set ups, etc. Tell them you want to meet them in person first (in a public place - stay safe). Do whatever you need to to make yourself comfortable. It took a whole lot of typing and crying for me to make the rehoming post for Bounce, but since doing it I've realised that nothing has changed - for now she is still a a part of my life, and I choose what happens next. All that's happened is that I am now exploring what could be suitable paths, and deciding whether they are or not. It doesn't mean it's not hard, and it doesn't mean that I'm not constantly worried about both her current situation and her future simultaniously, but I find it helpful to know that even whilst I am here worrying and loving her, the perfect person with the perfect goo may just stumble across my post. Sorry for such a long post! I hope my ramblings have helped in some way xx
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Post by bouncy on Mar 10, 2019 23:48:58 GMT
One thing about Notts (having adopted from there before). You get a full interrogation of your goo experience, have to provide photos of your setup, and have to sign a declaration that,if you're unable to keep your adoptees, they MUST be returned so they can be confident that any onward home is also appropriate.
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Post by natnat899 on Mar 11, 2019 13:56:31 GMT
Hi RamBam, sorry to hear what happened - we lost one of our degus a month or so ago and it’s heart breaking. The fire wasn’t your fault, it could of happened to anyone - it really brings home just how easily it can happen.
We also live in Bristol, and have a Lone Degu - she is 6 years old. I was keeping my eyes open incase a female lone degu popped up in Bristol. Even though Moon doesn’t seem lonely, I would still rather she has a companion as they are very social creatures.
We would be very reluctant to give Moon away (we have had her for almost 6 years), but we havnt got much space for introductions so I will need to speak to my partner, but if you are interested please pm me and I’m sure we can work something out!
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rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 13, 2019 23:03:04 GMT
I understand your feelings about not wanting more degus. I couldn't have enjoyed my degus more but I've been spending all my spare time in the dining room with the degus for 18 months now due to wanting to keep an eye on ill degus, and I haven't had a holiday for about 5 years because I can't get holiday cover either, I came home to 2 degus with strained legs last time and my mum hadn't even noticed. Yeah it’s terrifying to think something might happen while I’m away and I won’t be able to do anything. Would ruin any holiday I might take!
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rambam
Foraging Degu
Posts: 64
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Post by rambam on Mar 13, 2019 23:07:58 GMT
My heart is breaking for you, rambam. I have been a guinea pig person all of my life (rescues) until I recently adopted my adult degus from a shelter. I know that I am not a degu expert and that they are social and need other degus, but I will still boldly suggest that it sounds like you need each other. There are no perfect pet parents or homes; some are downright abusive and terrible; the best are loving, competent and responsible and very human. Because you are so caring and want the perfect home for your degu, Ava, I understand why you believe you need to be unselfish and do what's best for her. As someone on the outside I see a loving and dedicated degu mom who has a strong mutual bond with Ava. Her situation with you now as a single goo is not perfect but it just may be the best and most loving home for her. I’ve been pushing her cage from one room to another each day so that she can be wherever I am. Good thing about being in a small flat! She has definitely picked up a bit and has put on a bit of weight but still getting there. I think I know now that she’ll be ok with me and if I’m lucky the perfect home will come along for her if that is what’s meant to be. The fire was devasting and no idea how any of them survived really but so grateful that 3 of them did. Miss Sasha like mad though x
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