TERRIBLE FIGHTING

[deguowner1234]

Hi, I'm pretty new to owning degus compared to some people on here. I've had my degus since late August this year(2017) Both girls and they are so adorable! they were ok up until about 6 weeks of having them. They went through an awful stage of fighting so badly that we had to take them to the vets because she was badly injured. After she healed it settled down. But a few week later it got bad again! Every time I clean them out, they fight for 24 hours straight and I can't stop them. The only thing that seems to settle them is this certain type of music which I can't play it 24/7 I honestly don't know what to do at this point because they have some days when they are best friends and others where they just constantly fight!! One of my goos is very vocal and even a little bit of boxing causes her to squeak for 2/3 hours. I have exam next year and if they can't settle, I fear that I may have to get rid of them. Please could you give me some advice on how to make them better behaved and to stop them fighting so much (separation is not an option because we have no where to put them.)
Thanks x

[savvy]

Welcome to the forum, sorry to read about the problems you are having.

Fighting after cage cleaning could be down to the way you are cleaning their cage. If you could answer a few questions it may help us advise you further.

In the first instance, when you clean their cage, don't not clean everything! I know this may sound strange, but a thorough cleaning may be what's upsetting them. Degus rely heavily on scents to establish and maintain the hierarchy. If you are cleaning too well, you are removing all their markers and effectively resetting the hierarchy to square one. They fight to establish whose boss, you clean their cage, they fight against to establish whose boss, you clean their cage and the cycle continues.

Can you talk us through your cage cleaning routine? How often, how thorough etc?

How old are they?

Are you sure they are both female?

Also what cage are they in?

All of these factors can unwittingly increase aggression in the degu group.

Please ask as many questions as you need to, there are no silly ones when it comes to these little guys.

[deguconvert]

Hello Deguowner1234! Welcome to the forum! I echo the questions that Savvycat has asked, and will be watching for your reply. As Savvycat said, these are all things that can influence fighting, so knowing your answers will help us to reply with greater accuracy.

And DO ask any and all questions. Nothing puts us off.

[moletteuk]

Sometimes there are avoidable triggers to fighting so don't despair just yet!

Generally a large cage and only cleaning bits of it at a time can have a good effect.

[claire]

I went through this as well with my two big boys. I now clean one level of my cage at a time and the wheel separate as well. My ratty hates me cleaning his wheel and triggers fights. Since I cleaned separate I've had maybe 2 fights due to time if year.

[deguowner1234]

Hi, thank you for your replies. I clean the cage every weekend. I first put them into a smaller cage so they are out of the way(they seem fine with this). Then I remove all the little bits lying around the cage floor like toys, bits of stuff they chew, their box etc. I have a removeable tray in the bottom so I then take that out, pour out all their old bedding and give the tray a quick wipe down. Then I put in new bedding and put the tray back in. I leave all the things that dangle down alone because they don't get really dirty. I wipe down the shelves, the wheel and the box and replace the hay in the box. Then I put all the things back in, refill the water bottles and put them back in. Within a few minutes, they start fighting and don't stop!

They are about 27 weeks old. I've had them for 17 weeks and they were about 9/10 weeks old we I got them.

Their cage is one level but it was rexcommended by someone who owner degus previously. It has 2 shelves, the top one which they love, and a lava ledge(new) I'm not sure on the dementions but I know it's fairly big. I did think at first that it might be the size of the cage but I have limited space in my house and cannot fit a double level cage in.(they are on top of a desk) it was on the floor before but that didn't work.
I am pretty sure that they are both females. We were sold them as females and after looking at anatomy and reading about it I think they are both females.
Is it something to do with their personalities?
When we first got them they loved each other and never fought then it went down hill after a month of having them?
Will I be able to fix it without spending lots and lots of money?
Why does one of them squeak for hours on end after a little rough and tumble? How can I stop that?

[savvy]

Thanks for the info.

First things first, you are over cleaning. There is no need to wipe down the tray or the shelves, just give the wee spots a quick wipe. I'd put a handful or two of old substrate back in as well as it contains their scents.

Also, don't wipe down the wheel, there's very little need unless it's very grubby. Their toys also don't need to be cleaned.

Now for the bad news, the fact that your cage sits on your desk and is only one levels suggests that it's nowhere near big enough. For two degus we recommend either the Aventura www.littlepetwarehouse.co.uk/products/metal-aventura-huge-metal-rat-ferret-chinchilla-cage.html?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkuShxOuQ2AIV7p3tCh0N4giDEAQYAiABEgKd__D_BwE or the Liberta www.cagesworld.co.uk/p/Liberta_2nd_Edition_Explorer_Rat,_Ferret_and_Chinchilla_Cage.htm?product_id=546848&utm_source=pla&affiliate=CGW-google-shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq-uG3-uQ2AIVhbvtCh0rrgHmEAQYASABEgIBtfD_BwE and even then they will need the half shelves extended. Degus need a HUGE amount of space for their size and need space to run.

I suspect that your girls are fighting for territory which just isn't there.

Also at 27 weeks they are coming into adolescence which means they are entering the stroppy teenagers stage and this can last until they are 18months old.

Please don't be disheartened, a few changes should settle your girls down.

[deguowner1234]

Thank you for your advice savvycat, I will be sure to stop over cleaning. My problem now is that we don't have anywhere to put a larger cage plus they are quite expensive. At the moment I need a temporary fix until we can get an adequate cage. Is there anything else you can suggest?

[savvy]

Would be be possible to build the current cage up by a level? Is there a way you can put another cage on the top, joined obviously, with a hole cut through to allow access? This would double the space.

I think you may have a thickets cage and these can be joined to other thickets cages quite easily and can be picked up second hand (try eBay, Gumtree etc) for about £20. It would need a good clean to remove the scent of former residents etc.

If you have good DIY skills, you could build your own cage. There are some really good examples of home builds in our cages section.

[deguowner1234]

Hi savvycat, I just wondered how you could attach them together because I'm not the best at DIYs and would need some guidance. Thanks x

[savvy]

OK I've found a thread which may help you deguworld.proboards.com/thread/20393/putting-2-cages it goes into detail of someone doing exactly what you need to do.

If you have any problems, please ask and we'll help as best we can.

[deguowner1234]

Thank you.
I'm having another problem with one of my goos. She is really scabby and her ear is torn to the point where it is flopped down, she is losing fur on her tail + has a cut on it that keeps getting bigger and she has funky eyes. Luna used to be really outgoing and healthy but after she relentlessly fought with her sister, she's been in really bad shape. I'm really worried about doing home one day to find her dead. Honestly don't know what to do, her sister seems to be killing her. I know my cage is too small but even in a larger cage she carries on to bully her. It is really irritating and is causing no end of grief. I can't separate them as we don't have another cage that is big enough for her to inhabit. She is literally being bullied as I speak. Why is my other goo basically killing her?

There's not a chance we can get a new cage at the moment or DIY one so that's ruled out. I need a way to stop her from bullying her without having to buy a bunch of things(I'm sure it's personality related)

[savvy]

You need to separate the injured one or she will only get worse. I think she also may need to be seen by the vet to check her injuries. The dominant one is trying get to get her off her territory because of the lack of space and yes, to put it bluntly, deaths have occurred in this type of situation in the past.

Is there anyway she can be temporarily housed in the smaller cage that you mentioned in your first post? It would only be for a while.

You need to bathe her injuries with cooled boiled water with salt in (boil, put some salt in and allow to cool to room temperature before using.) The signs if infection are redness, hot to the touch and of course any signs of pus.

[deguconvert]

I also think she may need to see a vet, and I heartily support the suggestion of putting her in a separate cage. You can keep the cage near to the original one, with a couple cm between them so that she doesn't get bit through the bars.

Due to their age . . . the fighting will be heavily connected to dominance. Dominance fighting is prevalent among most degus between the ages of 6 months to 18 months, and some start fighting earlier than that. Because degu colonies are hierarchical in structure, it is crucial that everyone understand and accept their position, and young degus challenge with stubborn determination.

Due to the size of the cage, it will be acting as a catalyst for frustration and aggression over limited space, as well as the domination fighting. You are in a difficult position to be sure. I wonder if you might be able to find a used thickets near your home?

[deguowner1234]

Hi everyone.
Just an update on my goos. We went travelling a few days ago and took them with us. They were fine in the car but once I set up their main cage and sorted them out, they started fighting?? Why do they fight if they are moved?

Also, one of my goos lost the end of a tail a while ago. Only a small section and we did give her medication so she is fine now, just has a short tail

I have a question:
How do I stop my goos from squeaking after fighting? I get that they will squeak as a warning call afterwards but the squeaking continues for up to 10 hours and it gets on my nerves.


I'm sure that my degus were the awkward pair because they always seem to be having problems??

Anyway apart from these problems, they are fine We are also looking into getting them a bigger cage. Your tips on cage cleaning worked well! Thank you!! Hope you all had a good Christmas!!

[savvy]

Degus hate change, any change! Moving the cage would start them off. I once just swapped mine over, you know, cage on the left was moved to the right, etc and Dixie kicked off BIG style, put them back and everything was fine. I didn't even take them out of the cage, just physically moved each cage.

Moving to a totally new location would be the scents and sounds that were different enough to set them off. Remember - it's all about territory.

I'd expect fighting when you move them to the bigger cage too as again, it's new territory, but it should settle once the hierarchy is sorted.

Squeaking is their way of communicating, some degus are a lot more vocal than others, but they all squeak. They really just have to get it out of their system - again time should settle this.

Your girls are in their adolescence so at the moment they are like stroppy teenagers with all the hormones and attitude that brings.

[deguconvert]

I echo what Savvy has said. I will add that no matter where you go, where you put them, ALWAYS make sure that you put into the new cage, the cleaned cage, the new area whatever it is, several hands full of old and well used substrate. The scents and information in there will help to reassure them and settle them down more quickly.

As for the squeaking . . . they are in their adolescent phase which means that their emotions as well as their hormones are very heightened, so they will be on high alert and feeling very unsettled for a longer period of time after a conflict. Hopefully for your sake, they grow out of that quickly and are soon in a settled and accepted hierarchy.

[deguowner1234]

Thank you for answering my questions.

After a while they fell asleep yet my less vocal goo kept squeaking very softly as she slept?!

They fought more then fell asleep together on the wheel. It's just that one of them(not sure which) keep making this weird scratchy grinding sound in her sleep? Do you know what it is?

[savvy]

Grinding the teeth can have several causes; contentment, anger (yes, confusing I know) and/or teeth issuses, the only way to be sure is by looking at their other body language.

As she's asleep I'd plump for contentment as long as she's eating and drinking OK, which would signal teeth issues.

Degus are just plain weird most of the time, lol

[deguconvert]

I second what, Savvy!

Deguowner1234, really watch your girl that is grinding her teeth while she is eating, over the next several days. Do you see wetness around her mouth? Does any food spill out the sides or front while she is chewing? Is she pawing at her mouth after eating, as though trying to dislodge something that is stuck? These things can indicate dental issues with the molars that need to be checked out by the vet.

Otherwise, she could be one that really just likes to grind her teeth . . . or it could be a mindless habit. I will unconsciously clench my jaw while concentrating on almost anything . . . reading, cooking, sleeping, frustration, cleaning, doesn't matter what it is, if I'm in the thick of it I'm probably clenching or grinding my teeth. NOT good for me, but it is hard wired into my physiology. My Dad does it too. Just one of my quirks. Some degus have the same quirk.