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Post by randomname on Jul 13, 2017 19:43:25 GMT
there's really not much out there bouncy, they just haven't done many studies. Think Darth has a pretty comprehensive list. It's probably not long. I live for the day there is a decent nutrition study to read
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Post by moletteuk on Jul 13, 2017 19:52:12 GMT
Degupedia forum is worth a browse, Davx and Murx Pickwick and others are very knowledgeable. www.degupedia.de/forum/ I think they had a sister site just for chinchillas but that doesn't seem to be working now, which is a shame it was chinchillaschutzforum.com
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 19:54:45 GMT
I do wonder that too moletteuk as heat sensitivity is often mentioned on there. But never linked to anything. I am terribly shocking bouncy how dare I 😂 Yeah. When I have a good few free hours I'm gonna try and do some digging.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 20:08:33 GMT
there's really not much out there bouncy, they just haven't done many studies. Think Darth has a pretty comprehensive list. It's probably not long. I live for the day there is a decent nutrition study to read  I've just come up with a load of stuff on illness, antibiotics, and even a chin placenta! I'll keep looking
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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 20:09:25 GMT
Bone strenght is not as bad as people make it out to be (I have a lot of dead chinchillas in my freezer - I like skeletons...) They are not the most sturdy of bones but not as fragile as people try and make them out to be. They did try a couple of times to bring chinchillas down from the Andes to start breeding them. It failed. Then Chapman came along and he had a plan. They caught a bunch of animals and took them down slowley. Can't remember the exact numbers (and too lazy to look it up ). They only went down a specific number of meters every day (do you call it vertical meters?) to get them acclimated. And it worked. So they are sensitive to a lot of things. No question about that. It's just like people think sensitive is the same as breaking limbs if they are held wrong (not really something people talk about anymore) or dying if they eat anything other than pellets and hay. bouncy: If I scan some info could you translate it? I have some books in german on chinchillas. Book: Südamerikanische Chinchillas. There's a 10 pages chapter on feeding (Fütterung). It's from 1956 - Just found a picture of a Chinchilla brevicaudata in it. 2 Rodentia magasines: 1 and 37 - not much about food. Info on Save the Wild Chinchillas. Can see in i can dig my old german references on the internet out. (Annoying part of being danish. Us living to the norht understands Swedish and Norwegian while those to the south understands German. I hardly ever get to use my German, it's so rusty)
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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 20:16:00 GMT
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 20:33:09 GMT
Diet (wild) Chinchillas are generalists and opportunistic herbivores – an adaptation to living in areas where food availability fluctuates. They feed on different plants when they become available so their diet varies greatly between the wet and dry seasons (Cortés, Miranda & Jiménez, 2002). Their main food plants are the bark and leaves of native herbs and shrubs, and succulents such as bromeliads and cacti (Cortés, Miranda & Jiménez, 2002). Chinchillas rarely drink in the wild but obtain all their fluids from their diet (Spotorno et al, 2004).
Diet (domestic) Chinchillas are mainly herbivorous (eat only plant material) and caecotrophic (they produce two types of faecal pellet, the first type, the ‘ceacotroph’, is eaten by the chinchillas directly from the anus to produce a second, small, dry pellet) (Boussarie, 2002; Kupersmith, 1998). A diet high in plant fibre is needed to maintain this special digestive process so chinchillas must have ad lib access to good quality, fresh, dust-free grass hay at all times. A chinchilla’s typical daily diet consists of 30g of pellets and unlimited hay (Wolf et al, 2003), with fresh water provided daily from a bottle. Fresh herbs and leafy greens can be fed in very small amounts daily as treats. Chinchillas have been shown to prefer dead and dry leaves to fresh leaves (Cortés, Miranda & Jiménez, 2002), and can be given dried herb and plant mixes, which can be found in most pet stores, to supplement their hay-based diet and add variety and interest to it.
From the same source, it implies that pellets are used to provide the plant diet. With forage growing more widely available, why not??
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 20:35:15 GMT
Go ahead and scan the pages! I'd be happy to look! I'll start looking at the website link shortly
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 22:30:09 GMT
Sorry, was partway through cleaning out my air conditioning unit........All done, and my bedroom is cooling much better OK, that German site actually groups this advice for small mammals such as chins, degus, guinea-pigs, and rabbits. It says that a plant and roughage diet is essential for digestion and well-being, healthy gut flora, and tooth abrasion. The mix should consist of herbs, flowers and petals, leaves, bark, twigs, grasses, hay, straw, roots, green plant parts like corn leaves, and some house plants..........
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 22:43:02 GMT
Chins should have unlimited access to dried roughage plant matter and hay, whether in a bowl or scattered, as well as fresh plant matter.
Now for the bit you'll love...... Contrary to rumour, fresh fruit and veg isn't too rich for chinchillas, and can be fed daily in addition to (not instead of) greens and roughage. Fruit and veg contain fibre, vitamins, minerals, and lots of water. There's examples of what can be given. Dried fruit and veg cannot be counted here, because of sugar concentration, and should be considered a treat.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 22:53:23 GMT
A secondary or supplementary food can also be given (daily limited) of things like a seed mix, dried veg mix, and possibly a commercial pellet if recommended or new to chins.
Oh, and they're allowed 1-3 treats per day MAX.
There are separate lists on links for suitable plants etc for chins, but it's nearly 2am here, so I'll go through it in the morning.
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Post by zenaida on Jul 14, 2017 1:52:23 GMT
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Post by bouncy on Jul 14, 2017 15:02:03 GMT
Following one of the links on that Chin page, I came across a defined list of types degu feeding. Ballpark translation:
1) PHW (pellets, hay, water) Defined as the most straightforward, cost-effective and timesaving method, which provides a balance of vitamins and minerals. This is the route taken by hobby breeders and the fur trade.
2) PHW + snacks Mostly followed by hobby breeders, this is predominantly the PHW ROUTE, with occasional pieces of Apple or herbs to supplement. Again, followed because it cheap and straightforward.
3) Mixed Diet This is feeding a balanced mix of pellets, hay, but also dried herbs, seeds, and even fresh greens. A good starting point for new owners, and sometimes used by hobby breeders when helping with illness.
4) Pellet-free Diet No pellets, which are usually substituted with a seed mix, this is predominantly fed with dried herbs, occasionally fresh. You can do a lot wrong with this approach, such as selection mix, the wrong balance or mix of seeds, or even only offering seeds and hay.
5) Natural Diet No prepared food at all, replicating how chinchillas would behave in the wild. This means not just dried forage, but fresh too, and and energy giving seed mix.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 14, 2017 17:48:07 GMT
Ummmm . . . surely it isn't the same author for point four and point five? The "seed mix" in four sounds fraught with hazards or potential dangers to the chin, where as in five it is energy giving. What are the seeds in the mix???
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Post by bouncy on Jul 14, 2017 17:50:49 GMT
I think it's more the emphasis that someone's having a go at a natural diet, but might get the balance wrong, either within the seeds, or as a proportion of the whole diet. I'll carry on with the translation in a bit, just need some food.
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Post by darthchinchi on Jul 14, 2017 18:47:26 GMT
My animals really enjoy their forage but they want their pellets/musli too. Atm they eat A LOT. Not as hot as it has been, might be the cause if their increase in food intake.
Anyhow I wold never go off pellets and only supply forage. We simply do not know enough about the wild chinchilla diet. Most info on what they need is due to experimentation with their pellet based feed. When supplying pellets they will get the vitamins and minerals they need.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 14, 2017 19:23:25 GMT
There's about seven different lists for me to translate, and there may well be something about putting a diet together. Hang in there!
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Post by bouncy on Jul 14, 2017 20:59:59 GMT
Oh, and there are guides to putting your natural diet together...
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 15, 2017 17:50:48 GMT
I feel like we've stumble across a treasure trove and our safe cracker is breaking it all open!!! Thank you, Bouncy!! Darthchinchi, thank you for all the links and pointing the direction, as well as all the things you have included us in with your own discovery!!
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Post by bouncy on Jul 17, 2017 9:32:46 GMT
No worries. I didn't have any time to do some more last night, but I'll be back on duty shortly!
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