|
Post by randomname on Jul 13, 2017 12:12:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 15:12:33 GMT
I love how unique chinchillas are. They are so unique they apprently evolved to only eat food humans make for them I'm still pretty sure this idea comes from the time when people fed them on way too many fatty items like seeds and nuts. As their wild diet has a high content of nuts this is pretty funny to read. wildchinchillas.org/ on the Education page there is a small table on the food they eat. It is not all of their food items but some of them. Sometimes when planting seedlings and collecting seeds they go to the colony in the evening and places some seeds for them to eat. Oh I want to use the danish idiom "Fis i en hornlygte" directly translated it's "a fart in a lantern" (more or less).
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 15:17:42 GMT
As far as I remenber chinchillas r us also reccomend not letting kits out for playtime as they need to sit still to gain weight and muscle...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 16:41:30 GMT
So I just got removed from a chinchilla group.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 16:46:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by randomname on Jul 13, 2017 16:59:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 17:27:33 GMT
Yep. That's pretty much how it goes when you go into groups with a majority from certain countries. She is a tad passive aggressive though lol
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jul 13, 2017 18:12:41 GMT
I am amused by the statement that finding seeds is a demanding task for wild chins, and the value of the nutrition received from those seeds is so much less than the energy expended to find them that . . . well . . . what, there doesn't actually seem to be a conclusion to that statement. Then they continue to say that all chins would be fatties if given seeds in captivity situations. So, not good enough for wild chins to waste their time on, and too rich for the safe health of domestic chins . . . am I reading/interpreting her correctly?
As for fatty liver disease, it is a complex thing that begins in the gut and has to do with poor gut flora (at least in humans) and that can come of a lack of variety in foods, as well as many other things. It is known that even things that give great health benefits can cause great problems if taken too liberally . . . for instance the benefits of a glass or two of good wine each day versus, two or three economy sized bottles each day. Minerals are all important, but you have to have them in the right balance and company of other minerals to have absorption and the effect within the body that results in optimum health. If you go too heavy on one, you put the others out. If you have none of another, you have no good from any. There must be balance and care and wisdom. What if we all exercised the daylights out of quads but never our hamstrings? What if we all ate nothing but fruit all day, and not all fruits but only lemons? What if we ate nothing but corn? Or wheat? Or rice?
What happened to common sense?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:22:02 GMT
deguconvert that's how I read it. There is no common sense left apparently and if you try to mention that to them you get a very rude message and attacked and deleted. I wasn't once rude, I genuinely wasn't trying to "agitate" I thought there might be people like us on those groups who would be genuinely interested in discussions and people who may have actual evidence. No. Not allowed. I'm probably blacklisted from a bunch of them now.
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jul 13, 2017 18:39:38 GMT
Good thing we have our own then and can do some of the discovery that we long for. We are probably too . . . insanely and stupidly adventurous on behalf of our hind gut fermentors to be trusted and that is why we've had so little growth in our Chinchilla area.
For my part . . . I think it is time a little challenging was given to the status quo of chinchilla husbandry. You know, I can't help but think that we knew a whole lot more about good nutrition over a 100 years ago than we do now . . . for animals and humans alike!!
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 18:42:01 GMT
Horses can get bloat if they are introduced to fresh grass in the wrong way. Horses can get sick if they have access to all the grass they can eat but the combination of grasses and plants on the field is wrong. Not poisonous, just wrong amounts of plant material. I am not that into horse nutrition. I'm just saying, this can happen to animals who eat fresh all their lives, if it is introduced in the wrong way.
We are back at that issue with people assuming things again but no evidence to back them. It's just becoming one of those universal truths.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:43:50 GMT
I'm all for us producing that challenge, in the right way. I don't know how though.
That's why I got removed I think, I kept asking for evidence. Literally all I did was post what I've screenshot for you, other than commenting on cute photos.
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 18:57:26 GMT
They ban talk of "the German way". They do not want the drama. These people are not interested in the debate. They just want to stay on top and be the experts... A true expert is willing to learn.
First person to make a list of forage for chinchillas here, was a biologist working at a zoo here in Denmark (Randers regnskov). She knows her stuff... It's not like it's uneducated people who advocate going green
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 19:01:01 GMT
We as a forum do need to improve our chinchilla resources. Time to sit and translate some German I'm thinking.
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 19:07:47 GMT
Okay, maybe I'm overreacting a bit. Some might want the debate but if someone brings up green feeding some people go ape ****. It is a problem, and I do actually understand why some places just drop it as they can't cope with that type of drama. You saw the drama with my thread on things from my garden I feed. Imagine a group with 500+ members where the majority feels that strongly against feeding that way. They all know stories or had that one animal. No matter how much evidence you have to back it, it will never save that one animal that died.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 19:09:40 GMT
I guess so. I understand it a little bit. But is it that hard to see what's common sense and what is fuelled by emotion?
|
|
|
Post by darthchinchi on Jul 13, 2017 19:12:10 GMT
I need to translate my myth list and show you guys lol
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 19:16:31 GMT
You doooo.
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on Jul 13, 2017 19:32:57 GMT
I think/ hope if we start talking about chinchilla nutrition in an open sort of way then people who want to discuss it will find us. Maybe even some people who have negative thoughts about forage will turn up and be able to come up with some valid points that we can take on board. Or just a couple more people turning up to discuss their own well thought out experiments would be great.
One thing that interests me as a degu keeper with zero chin experience is the idea that chinchillas are more delicate than other small mammals. I've discussed this with a couple of people, Random and Darth, I think, and the two factors that stick in my mind where chins really do have a fragility is bone strength and temperature sensitivity. I wonder if there is a chance that temperature sensitivity could lead to a digestive sensitivity if the body is stressed with excess heat?
|
|
|
Post by bouncy on Jul 13, 2017 19:38:40 GMT
You're shocking, emily !, going around and being simply rude to all these chinchilla owners who know absolutely everything because they have PhDs in Chinchilla Husbandry Perhaps we're the ones who can start trawling the Internet for research studies? If you point me in the direction of the German sites, I can probably do some translating for you, too. Might as well make use of my degree!
|
|