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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 6, 2017 22:00:58 GMT
Hi,
Firstly, apologies if this post is a repeat of similar posts, but we are looking for some specific advice regarding three degu brothers. A bit of background information, we adopted the three of them from the RSPCA in late November 2016 and for the first week or so they all got along fine. In the second week Darren, the smaller of the degu’s, began scrapping with the other two Dean and Derek. A week later we had to separate Darren from the other two as they were seriously fighting (‘ball of fur’ fighting). Since then Darren has been in a separate cage pushed up against the other cage. This seemed to be working and we have started to integrate them. Roughly a week ago, whilst we were integrating the three of them Dean and Derek were bitten by Darren and although it was not serious both Dean and Derek now seem to get very frustrated in the presence of Darren and start teeth chattering / fighting (boxing each other).
We obviously would like to reintegrate the three of them, but every day they seem to be more separated. Darren was neutered before Christmas, but this does not seem to helping. Can anyone advise of the best way to resolve this situation?
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Post by bouncy on Feb 6, 2017 22:10:00 GMT
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on becoming a hooman goo slave!
I have initial questions. Where are your goos living? What are the dimensions of their home, and how old are your degus?
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 6, 2017 23:40:58 GMT
Same questions as Bouncy. Welcome to the forum. Just so that you know we are not ignoring your questions, degu fighting can be intimately tied/connected to their age and phase in life, and to the size of the cage they are living in. The vast majority of pet stores sell cages that are way too small for degus, and with increasing numbers of degus within a given cage, the space required is greater. The space that we measure is the surface area, not the overall square footage within the cage itself. (Similar to any home which is measured by the square footage of the floor space.)
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 7, 2017 7:50:44 GMT
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on becoming a hooman goo slave! I have initial questions. Where are your goos living? What are the dimensions of their home, and how old are your degus? Hello, cage (1) with the two degu's in is 1.2m h x 0.9m w, 0.6m d and cage (2) 0.6m h x 0.92m w x 0.47m d. They currently live in our spare bedroom and are about 1 year old.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 7, 2017 8:07:52 GMT
Same questions as Bouncy. Welcome to the forum. Just so that you know we are not ignoring your questions, degu fighting can be intimately tied/connected to their age and phase in life, and to the size of the cage they are living in. The vast majority of pet stores sell cages that are way too small for degus, and with increasing numbers of degus within a given cage, the space required is greater. The space that we measure is the surface area, not the overall square footage within the cage itself. (Similar to any home which is measured by the square footage of the floor space.) Hello, please see cage dimensions in my repsonse to the previous post, I also attach a photograph of the larger cage (apologies its uploaded side ways). Just to clarify are you suggesting that we need more larger area flat shelving than little legdes? . Attachment Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 9:38:25 GMT
Hi welcome! Little ledges are in reality unfortunately no good for degus. You need full levels and lots of them. If you have three degus you need 4 full levels of 100cm long by 50cm deep as a bare minimum really x you can make these from kiln dried pine, furniture board like melamine, but if you use melamine you must make sure you edge it with pine or builders band as it's not safe to be chewed by degus. Lack of space and being able to run may be greatly contributing to the fighting. They aren't climbers, they're ground squirrels so run lots over long distances By full levels we mean the whole of the depth and length of the cage, with a hole cut out so you can attach a ramp or make a step
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Post by bouncy on Feb 7, 2017 10:24:54 GMT
OK, in terms of the cages, they're a good size.
As @emdalliance mentioned, floor space is key, and could be the source of your problems. Degus in the wild are extremely territorial, and cover quite a distance (measure in km, not m). It’s likely, therefore, that they are getting aggressive and trying to defend their territory. If you can add 2-3 full levels, it opens everything up for them, and is likely to help calm things down. It's easy enough by cutting to size, then using nuts and bolts with penny washers in each corner of the bars to rest it on. A lot of members use pine or melamine board. If using the latter, it's wee proof, but you'll need to protect the access holes between levels with something like U profile. I've also made shelves before from perspex edged with U profile, but I covered it in sticky backed plastic in case they thought they could walk on air! Keep a perch or two in there, by all means. Just bear in mind that goos are ground animals who think they're a lot better at climbing than they actually are!
Keep the two cages side by side, swapping handfuls of substrate, until you hear warbling noises.
The other thing working against you is that they're probably going through their first winter and are extremely hormonal. You should see them become less aggressive towards each other in the next few months. It's unlikely that Darren's neutering would have had much effect, as degus produce testosterone in their brains, not their snipped bits.
Degus really are weird and wonderful creatures that keep us guessing the whole time, so don't be afraid to ask what you think might be a silly question!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:32:33 GMT
Yep! No question is too silly! We will do everything we can to help x
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 7, 2017 17:24:43 GMT
OK, in terms of the cages, they're a good size. As @emdalliance mentioned, floor space is key, and could be the source of your problems. Degus in the wild are extremely territorial, and cover quite a distance (measure in km, not m). It’s likely, therefore, that they are getting aggressive and trying to defend their territory. If you can add 2-3 full levels, it opens everything up for them, and is likely to help calm things down. It's easy enough by cutting to size, then using nuts and bolts with penny washers in each corner of the bars to rest it on. A lot of members use pine or melamine board. If using the latter, it's wee proof, but you'll need to protect the access holes between levels with something like U profile. I've also made shelves before from perspex edged with U profile, but I covered it in sticky backed plastic in case they thought they could walk on air! Keep a perch or two in there, by all means. Just bear in mind that goos are ground animals who think they're a lot better at climbing than they actually are! Keep the two cages side by side, swapping handfuls of substrate, until you hear warbling noises. The other thing working against you is that they're probably going through their first winter and are extremely hormonal. You should see them become less aggressive towards each other in the next few months. It's unlikely that Darren's neutering would have had much effect, as degus produce testosterone in their brains, not their snipped bits. Degus really are weird and wonderful creatures that keep us guessing the whole time, so don't be afraid to ask what you think might be a silly question! Brilliant, Thank you both for the advise.
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Post by goolover on Feb 7, 2017 18:26:33 GMT
Hi there and welcome to the forum. Just regarding Darren being castrated. It will have reduced his hormones at some level but castration wont change his aggression unfortunately. We have 2 castrated boys and their behavior before and after castration is just the same. We're sure one of ours has ADHD as he is an absolute nutter, running around talking to himself, body slamming and nipping any other goo in his path, very aggressive and territorial........after castration........still the same nutter rofl.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 18:30:23 GMT
I have a degu who talks to herself too. Some are just a bit mental
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Post by goolover on Feb 7, 2017 18:32:57 GMT
I talk to myself too............a bad sign me thinks
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 7, 2017 18:47:26 GMT
Kingnuggy9, looks like you've had the information you need about the cage and young "master" Darren. It will make a massive difference to your degus to have the full levels instead of the little ledges. You and they will all greatly appreciate the changes in behavior and activity!
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 8, 2017 0:49:47 GMT
Kingnuggy, where are you located?
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 8, 2017 8:32:38 GMT
Kingnuggy, where are you located? South Coast, England
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Post by bouncy on Feb 8, 2017 15:03:46 GMT
Let us know how things get on once you've got some floors in place. It'll take a little bit for them to get used to the space, but you should see some improvement
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 13, 2017 9:46:16 GMT
Let us know how things get on once you've got some floors in place. It'll take a little bit for them to get used to the space, but you should see some improvement Made so progress at the weekend installing new surfaces for the boys. They seem to be really enjoying the additional space.
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 13, 2017 14:20:53 GMT
Looking better Ideally you would do another one or two full area shelves, although it looks like at one point they almost meet up anyway, see how you and they like it. Not sure how big the cage is overall, but you could always extend, add in a bigger wheel (homemade or Tictac), have forage feeding stations etc. Let us know how you get and if the boys calm down at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 15:22:21 GMT
Yeah! Extensions are good and fun to make! You could do a bottom extension and make a terrarium digging pit! Or extend up using something like the mesh you find on a pets at home cage, then line it with a flooring so the top of the cage (which would effectively be the floor) doesn't hurt their feet! The cage is looking better and you're making good progress. If you could try and butt up some of the wood so it makes full floors that would be amazing. We say full floors because degus like to run, and to get up to running speed they need a floor area of 100cm long and 50cm wide, it gives them enough room to run properly, without having to stop and start.
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 13, 2017 18:55:35 GMT
Definitely improved, and your degus will be enjoying it. Like Moletteuk and Emdalliance, I would like to see you either arrange the pieces so that they are securely and tightly beside each other, making for a full level, or building a new one or two in there that completely cover from side to side, giving extra running room. How are they reacting to each other following your changes?
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