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Post by kingnuggy9 on Aug 21, 2017 13:33:01 GMT
Hi again,
Since the previous update Darren (the troublesome one) has been re homed with the RSCPA and the other two are living together very happily for the last 6-7 months. However, we recently returned from a 2 week holiday during which the two remaining degus (Derek and Dean) lived at my parents house. On returning them to their original home cage in our flat there has been some on off fighting (not too serious). However this morning a significant fight broke out and Derek has a small injury around his arm pit arm. The fight at one stage went from boxing to fur ball of death, but only for about 5 seconds and then they broke away from each other. We are assuming the fighting has been brought on by the hierarchy somehow being reset away we return from holiday.
Can anyone provide advise on how to stop the current fighting and how to reintegrate them or manage them when we are on holiday and staying in a different location.
Thanks
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 21, 2017 16:19:14 GMT
I'm so sorry your boys have fallen out!!
Because scent is one of the key sources of information for degus, info such as standing in the hierarchy, health, etc., they rely on the information contained in their substrate to reinforce this. If you did not bring them home in the cage they lived in and then transfer a few handfuls of this old substrate into their cage and over the top of the clean substrate in their home cage, you likely have reset their memory bank. IF you have some old substrate on hand for whatever reason, putting some in could help, but there is the potential it won't make much difference. You may have to work on reintroducing them and rebuilding their bond of trust. It is difficult to say how long this will last or take to see them restored to stable relationship.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 21, 2017 16:21:48 GMT
Have you read through our fighting and introductions guide? It sounds like it has probably been recommended in the past?
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Post by bouncy on Aug 21, 2017 17:20:22 GMT
It sounds like the boys stayed in holiday accommodation with your parents (a different and perhaps smaller cage). Two weeks is a long time in the life of a goo, when you think of the few months they've lived in relative peace. I suspect now you've taken them home again, it's like taking them to a new territory. They've got to get used to their home cage again, the sounds and smells of the environment......... As DC suggests, put some of the substrates from their holiday home into their normal cage. Try giving them an introduction in a neutral (but comparatively small) area, and see how they get on. They will likely have to squabble a bit to sort themselves out again, but I have a feeling that the unrest won't last too long  How's Derek's arm doing? |
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Aug 21, 2017 18:05:26 GMT
Thank you both for your quick replies. Derek's arm seems to be ok and he is walking fine. We have cleaned it with salt water and also Dean has helped clean it too. Which gives me hope that they are settling down.
Perhaps a stupid questions, but when we clean the cage out surely the removal of the substrate resets the territory?
Also any tips for holiday cages / homes. Obviously we now understand the important of move substrate with them when they move temporarily. I will attach a photo of the holiday setup.
Thanks
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Aug 21, 2017 18:06:42 GMT
Thank you both for your quick replies. Derek's arm seems to be ok and he is walking fine. We have cleaned it with salt water and also Dean has helped clean it too. Which gives me hope that they are settling down. Perhaps a stupid questions, but when we clean the cage out surely the removal of the substrate resets the territory? Also any tips for holiday cages / homes. Obviously we now understand the important of move substrate with them when they move temporarily. I will attach a photo of the holiday setup. Thanks  |
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 21, 2017 19:44:57 GMT
Cleaning the cage can definitely have the same result, especially if the cage has a very thorough cleaning that removes all traces of scent. This has been reported and asked about multiple times times here on the forum. When this happened to me, I had to learn to keep back a small amount and spread it around the cage after each cleaning, which made a world of difference with my goos. I tended to super clean the cage and then they would explode. Not fun. With the changes in cage for the holiday, that would/could cause an even sense of new territory or displacement that would bring on the fighting you have seen.
I'm glad to hear that so far things seem some better. I hope they continue that way!
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Post by bouncy on Aug 21, 2017 20:22:43 GMT
Wow! They spent two weeks living in a giant run? They were on their holidays too!
Cleaning depends on what you do. Personally, when I clean my boys out, I simply tip the old substrate out and put new in. I don't use any cleaning agents, so the cage retains their scent. The only things I do clean are the dried wee wheels. I always do them in situ and because I remove the whole tray from that level first, the boys regularly look up to see what I'm doing.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Aug 22, 2017 19:15:59 GMT
thank you both for the advise. Both Degus are doing much better today.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 22, 2017 20:50:20 GMT
Just a word of warning . . . the fact that they are doing better today doesn't ensure that they will be good tomorrow or next week or even a month from now. They could fall out again, as it certainly isn't uncommon, but they may have just had a one of, and that is my sincerest hope for you!
It wouldn't hurt to give them a friendly once over once a week for a while. If they will let you cup them in a hand, (here's hoping they will) then brush their fur forward instead of back and this will allow you to get a look at their skin and be able to see better if there are bite marks and scabs that will indicate if fighting is happening unawares to you. They are VERY good at this, and because of the density of their fur, it is hard to discover.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Sept 14, 2017 19:52:27 GMT
Hello, since the previous update the guys (Derek and Dean) have for the most part stopped fighting. However there now seems to be sporadic (every couple of days) fighting when they are out in the run. The fighting seems to start because Dean (the non dominant one) wants to run in the same wheel as Derek which seems to start a dominance fight. They have two wheel in their cage and seem to manage fine, but for some reason they cannot manage with two wheels in the run.
We have tried transferring some substrate from their cage into the wheels and also cleaning the wheels to make them neutral again, but this does not seem to work. Can anyone provide any advise, tip etc. Thanks
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Post by bouncy on Sept 14, 2017 21:41:23 GMT
I'm afraid that this is just goo behaviour! You've done a fantastic job in sorting out their squabbles, but there are just some things we can't influence. Everyone's goos have kickboxing battles at some stage (my Spidergoo seems to be in a strop on a weekly basis), but it's just part of their nature. I'm guessing that, like toddlers, one is in the wheel in the run, so the other wants it too, and sharing is a no-no.
Try removing the outside wheel, and see if things calm down.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 11, 2018 11:59:04 GMT
 Hi, Since the previous posts I am pleased to say that we have had no further fighting and generally they are calm. However, a couple of day ago we started to notice that Derek was getting a small bald patch. This bit of Derek's back is normally Dean's favorite spot to rest on when they are sleeping / bundling so it normally gets a bit ruffled up. I attach a photograph of the bald patch and can only assume that Dean is grooming Derek too much or sleeping in such a way that the hair is pulled out. Has any one seen this before or have a suggestion as to how to stop it? |
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 11, 2018 19:00:57 GMT
It certainly could be over grooming, but degus are also known to be prone to Alopecia occasionally, so it could also be that. Some have used zinc cream lightly spread over the bald area, which seemed to work to discourage over grooming. However it is difficult to clean from the fur and I don't think the degus like it very much. I don't think I would use it?
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Feb 11, 2018 20:55:53 GMT
Thank you. We will probably monitor the problem and see what happens. I am not sure that he will appreciate zinc cream on this back.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Sept 3, 2019 19:28:12 GMT
Hi, since my previous message (Feb 2018) both degus have been absolutely fine with each other. However, in the last week or so both have started being more aggressive towards each other and last night we nearly had to separate when as a ball of fur seemed on the cards. Nothing has changed in terms of their environment etc. I know the breeding season is from November to April, but is there another season that i am missing? Could it be related to the growing of winter hair (maybe a bit early)?
Any thoughts would be really appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 4, 2019 1:12:01 GMT
Something that can dramatically influence things is the way we clean their cages. Have you had a cage cleaning recently that may have been more thorough than usual? Do you usually sprinkle a handful or two of the old stinky substrate on top of the new substrate you put in after a cleaning?
You may know already that the scents contained in their urine are very important to reinforcing what they know about each other, if not . . . here is what I am referring to. Scents in their urnine tell them who is top degu, what their health is like, their personality and the history they share, their age, their sex, and so forth. If these are completely removed through washing and the complete removal and replacing of substrate, it is a bit like wiping their memory drive, hitting re-set, and making them strangers again. This then becomes a dominance issue, and once again they feel the need to enter the contest to determine who is top degu, to mutually agree to that determination, and to get to know each other again. Degus rely quite heavily on the information contained within their urine to keep their memories fresh and colony relationships in good standing.
IF you did remove these scents . . . how recent was the cleaning of their cage?
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Post by moletteuk on Sept 4, 2019 10:36:10 GMT
Winter breeding season is very approximate on timings and can easily start early, especially since Autumn seems to be arriving a bit early this year.
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Post by kingnuggy9 on Sept 4, 2019 20:06:12 GMT
They were last cleaned early/mid last week, but i think you might be right as i may not have put back some substrate. Do you have any experience of using 'Pet remedy' sprays / plug ins?
Thank you for the quick response and advise.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 5, 2019 4:30:27 GMT
Not really . . . have use Bachs pet remedy, and I think I put some in the water, but I don't remember which it was, not how much I used. I'll have to see if that can be found anywhere in past posts. It would be a few years back! I would be careful with sprays because degus have very sensitive lungs, and I would be leary of how the ingredients in the spray could affect their lungs. If I can find anything, I'll let you know!
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