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Post by clippedwings on Oct 9, 2013 10:49:18 GMT
Hey there, I'm new to degus and recently acquired 2 male degus. They are roughly around 3 months old and I've just weighed them. They both weigh ~218 / 222 grams (even though one of them seems larger than the other, but he weighs just 4 grams more, which surprised me, I was expecting there to be a much bigger difference), is this a normal weight for that age degus or are they overweight? Also, is this cage good enough for them? Attachment Deleted |
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Post by Maravilla on Oct 9, 2013 11:11:34 GMT
Hello and welcome to the forum. Well, I would say that this weight is too much for 12 weeks old degus. This is more than some of my fully growns are weighing. Are you sure they are only 3 months old? Do you have pictures of them? About the cage I am afraid I have to tell you that it is too small for them. Degus need a lot of space for running, burrowing, hiding, playing. The minimum cage floor should be 100x50 cm plus a couple of (full) levels. There is a thread indicating some information about this topic. There is plenty of information around how to extend your cage or how to build a new, bigger one. It is easier as you might think. The cage gallery also gives you some ideas about this. What is this red thing sticked to the front door? If it is something like a mineral or salt stone please take it out. Degus do not need such a thing and it even can cause health problems. I know that in shops they are often sold as important stuff but they are not. I know it is plenty stuff to read and digest but it is really worth to do, for the well-being of your degus. |
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Post by ntg on Oct 9, 2013 11:43:37 GMT
Hi and welcome to the forum (and the wonderful world of degus)!  Maravilla has given you some great advice about the cage! Unfortunately we see a lot of people being missold the Thicket's cage on a regular basis so you can often pick them up on gumtree/preloved/ebay for a good price. If you were to get another two then you could stack them and join them together using popholes or metal ducting if you don't feel up to a cage build. Alternatively, a lot of people buy the liberta explorer/savic royal suite/xtrail/aventura cage which only require a few modifications. |
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 9, 2013 12:24:22 GMT
The most likely explanation for them being a bit heavier than we expect for this age is that they are a bit older than Pets at Home told you. If you would like to post a couple of pics of the degus we can cast an eye over them for you and hopefully reassure that they look OK proportion wise, it's highly unusual to have young degus that are overweight.
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 9, 2013 17:02:22 GMT
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Post by ntg on Oct 9, 2013 17:35:22 GMT
They certainly don't look overweight but they might be a little older than 3 months, perhaps 4 months looking at the size of them compared to the wheel?
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Post by Maravilla on Oct 9, 2013 18:19:28 GMT
I just asked other very experienced degu owners and we all agree that they could be older than 6 months, even around 12 months. They do not look like very young degus, do not have the typical baby fur and the overall proportions of ears, head and body, together with the weight are more likely for older degus.
3 months old degus could weigh around 90-130g, but 220g is for sure no weight for so young animals.
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 9, 2013 19:46:44 GMT
So most likely the shop got their age wrong.. Regarding the cage, at the moment I can't really afford a huge one, but what I can do and will do is make a play pen for them, so I could let them out of the cage daily without worrying that they might do something or go somewhere in the room that they shouldn't, especially since I have a TV and wires nearby.. Another thing I noticed is that they seem to fight over food and various items quite often. Even though I have two bowls (for food) now for each one, they both like to go over to one bowl and start a fight when I give them their nugget feed.. Previously it's just been that angry squeeking and pushing away, today they went on a bit harder, jumping around, punching each other and squeeking when I gave them their nuggets, had to really try and separate them and push the bowls far away from each other.. Though they didn't do that "ball of death" thing, which I heard is the worst case.. However they always seem to get over it once they've eaten and they go around grooming, playing and doing their normal things afterwards.. On the more cheerful side, got them to chill / sleep on my hand again, the bigger one and the one that is usually the more dominant is pretty used to me, let's me scratch his belly, often climbs on my hand and even slept on it a few times, however the smaller one is a lot more timid, he only gets on my hand to jump or walk over it as an obstacle and I can't really pet him much, whenever I try to scratch his belly or by the ears he just runs away, but not in a scared manner, more of in a one where he just doesn't want to be petted. It seems he isn't scared of me, they both always come to the cage door and to my hand when I slip it inside, sniff it and so on, but the smaller one just doesn't want to be petted much somehow, it's weird because he does nibble on my hand and fingers once in a while, but doesn't want the same thing from me much  Maybe he just wants treats like oats from me, since I always hand feed them those and doesn't care much about petting, unlike the other one who seems to enjoy both things.. |
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 10, 2013 10:25:25 GMT
Also, almost every time I feed them the nuggets, the bigger one keeps burying the nuggets in the sawdust, he does eat them but also goes around burying quite a few, while I never seen the smaller one do this..
Any idea why?
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Post by Maravilla on Oct 10, 2013 10:42:06 GMT
My degus do not get nuggets so I do not know if they would do it with them as well, but quite often they first hide their nuts (whole nuts with shell) or even pumpkin seeds, maybe for "worst days" and eat them later... or not as I often find bigger amounts of them when I fully clean their cages.
So, they either do it because they are not hungry right now or because they don't like them.
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Post by ntg on Oct 10, 2013 12:03:48 GMT
Play pens are fantastic for helping you to bond with your degus. With the cage being too small it would be great if there was a way to make it a permanent addition for the moment, however I know that's not always possible. Try and make it as big as possible and certainly big enough for you to sit or lie down in as they start becoming more confident with you and start using you as an interactive climbing frame after a while! If you find they always go for the same bowl as each other, and start eating their nuggets straight away, try feeding them both a nugget through the cage at the same time, preferably at opposite sides of the cage, and then put their bowls in next to each degu. Lucky you! Getting belly strokes already! I have to sneak mine in and, even then, only one of them will tolerate that! It might be that the small one is similar to one of my lot. Venk will be as sweet as you like with me, come up for food, jump on my shoulder, walk on my hands, give me "kisses" and groom me (he has a disturbing foot fetish which I'm not too sure about). But if I touch him he will just squeal at me in return, where the others would side step and carry on with what they do. So it's a very one-sided relationship  With the pellets, is that all they get fed at the moment? As Maravilla says, it could be that they're storing them incase of a shortage, however, they will also store food out of boredom if you are giving them too much of the same thing. As you can imagine, pellets must be very boring for degus so we try to recommend supplementing their diet with dried and fresh foliage/herbs and a variety of oil seeds. You can buy herb packs for pets at pets at home - although as with everything, it's expensive for the amount you get - online pet stores like zooplus, galens garden, ratrations etc or you can go out and find some things in the great outdoors, if you are confident with plant identification. Ratrations has a great degu seed mix in as well. |
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 10, 2013 13:00:40 GMT
Yeah I've recently bought a herb pack for them and started mixing it with the hay / pellets that they get. I also give them sunflower seeds that I bought at the pet shop and "human" oats from the regular store as treats once in a while, they both go absolutely crazy for the seeds and oats and always fight if I feed both of them from one hand.. So I always have to feed one, wait till that one goes away for a while and sneak in my hand to feed the other one.. Here's a photo of the ingredients of the herb mix I give them. I'm also a bit unsure about the oats, here's the description of what's in them, are these "human" oats ok for them? Also here's a sweet pic of them chilling out in the sun today hehe Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by ntg on Oct 10, 2013 13:40:58 GMT
The ingredients in the herb pack are all A-OK, since I'm on the computer I can link you through to a few threads for herb packs you can buy (although it isn't comprehensive), good websites for degu-suitable products, and nutrition charts for veg and oil seeds which make good treats. We don't really recommend oats or other cereals as treats any more as they can contribute to the formation of cataracts and have terrible Calcium-Phosphorous ratio (Ca:P) which has been implicated in dental problems. Sunflower seeds are great for training, but I wouldn't give them too many each day. Alternatively, if you can get a hold of coriander seeds and they are popular with your boys then they are a decent size to use for hand feeding and have a much better Ca:P than sunflower seeds  You might find you have to use both hands to feed them, if I did my lot one by one they would have murdered each other by now  Just make sure you put a pile of treats somewhere they can't reach but you can! Oh they are gorgeous little loves. I realised we forgot to do our usual recommendation with new owners: to check the sex of your boys as pet shops seem to struggle at times. If you can't hold them to look then using a glass bowl/jar/casserole dish and looking underneath or tempting them up the side of the cage often works! |
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 10, 2013 14:37:43 GMT
That's some great into regarding the feed! Thanks I guess I'll skip on the oats from now on. I'll try and get this seed mix for them www.ratrations.com/degu-seed-mixture-p-1198.html Do I mix this in with their nuggets daily or is it more like a treat? If I can mix them daily, can I mix it with everything? Meaning adding nuggets, herbs and seeds in one bowl at the same time? And regarding their sex, they're definitely boys, they have that bigger gap between their anus and cone and seem them pop out their willies to wash them or whatever it is that they do with them hehe |
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Post by Maravilla on Oct 10, 2013 14:40:33 GMT
Do they eat this nice flower mix? In this case I would not wonder if they just put the pellets aside, waiting for more nice stuff. NTG already linked some important information about degu products and sources so maybe you find more of this stuff and can leave some day the pellets completely aside.
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Post by clippedwings on Oct 10, 2013 14:46:29 GMT
They do eat that flower mix, but they also love their nuggets.. It really depends honestly, when I mix the herbs with their nuggets, they can either go for the nuggets or the herbs first, but overall I think most of the time they go for the nuggets first..
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Post by swiffermuis on Oct 10, 2013 16:36:24 GMT
Welcome to the forum! I have something to say about the cage, you can get your money back because P@H know very well that the cage does not meet requirements. I chose to keep the cage and build one myself, keeping the Thickets cage in case of emergency or introduction purposes |
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Post by moletteuk on Oct 10, 2013 18:38:12 GMT
A bigger cage can really help with fighting over food and other stress points. You can feed them on seperate levels, have two wheels and generally they can get away from each other now and then. There are lots of options for expanding, a quick fix would be a cheap, second hand thickets cage added on from ebay or Preloved etc. Sounds like you are doing well taming-wise I would probably have guessed around 6 months for the age, they aren't fully adult anyway, and they look fine weight-wise. I though you might be interested in this thread about making a play pen deguworld.proboards.com/thread/7310 |
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Maybe he just wants treats like oats from me, since I always hand feed them those and doesn't care much about petting, unlike the other one who seems to enjoy both things..
Just make sure you put a pile of treats somewhere they can't reach but you can!
