rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Jul 26, 2023 1:16:53 GMT
i have a grey degu and WAYYYYY back when he was rescued he had mites. he was treated and we even extended treatment to make sure. when i brought him home he was 100% mite free. he did have a lil white spot on his butt where his fur was thinner due to the mites. even now it’s still a lil light. i’ve noticed recently he has a white spot of the same size on the other side of his rump. i wondering if this might be a stress behavior? i don’t quite know what he would be stressed about now that it’s been a long time since he came home with me. i had a hamster that would dig at her sides until she was raw and i’m just worried that he’ll end up like her
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Post by savvy on Jul 26, 2023 1:48:25 GMT
Is it possible to get a photo of it?
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Jul 26, 2023 11:50:11 GMT
Is it possible to get a photo of it? sorry for the late response, he was sleeping and i didn’t want to wake him! it doesn’t look all too bad out of context, looks like his fur is just moved around. But it’s always white and it’s on both sides to the point it’s pretty noticeable.
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Post by teemu on Jul 26, 2023 12:06:24 GMT
The picture is quite blurry, but the first thing I would assume when I see that is that his fur is of the type where the hairs have a different undercolor and a top color, and his fur has thinned out in that area so that you're seeing the pale lower half of the hairs at that point. The fact that there are gray hairs visible in the rest of his coat is at least indicating that the color is still normal to him. This is actually a rather common fur type for degus, for example the regular agouti coat is like this. The hair is usually so tightly packed that you only see the top, but if the fur thins out, it can look like there's a black spot there (in the regular agoutis). If that is what is happening here, it's harmless by itself, but there could be some sort of a skin issue that's making the hair thin out in the first place.
It could of course be that I'm not seeing it correctly. If you are able to touch the affected area (I know most degus really don't care for someone touching their bum), does it feel like the fur there is thin or frayed? Can you easily see the skin if you move the fur around a bit? And if you can get one or two of those hairs (carefully, don't rip out anything that doesn't want to come out), inspect it under a good light. Does it look like the whole hair is grayt, or is there darker color towards the top?
Still, even if it is just his natural colors showing, the fact that they are showing indicates that he's losing fur on that area. It's unlikely that this is caused by mites if you got rid of them a long time ago already (but of course it could be that he got new ones from something), but there are other reasons it might happen. Are there any other spots on his body where something similar is happening?
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Jul 27, 2023 17:09:09 GMT
The picture is quite blurry, but the first thing I would assume when I see that is that his fur is of the type where the hairs have a different undercolor and a top color, and his fur has thinned out in that area so that you're seeing the pale lower half of the hairs at that point. The fact that there are gray hairs visible in the rest of his coat is at least indicating that the color is still normal to him. This is actually a rather common fur type for degus, for example the regular agouti coat is like this. The hair is usually so tightly packed that you only see the top, but if the fur thins out, it can look like there's a black spot there (in the regular agoutis). If that is what is happening here, it's harmless by itself, but there could be some sort of a skin issue that's making the hair thin out in the first place. It could of course be that I'm not seeing it correctly. If you are able to touch the affected area (I know most degus really don't care for someone touching their bum), does it feel like the fur there is thin or frayed? Can you easily see the skin if you move the fur around a bit? And if you can get one or two of those hairs (carefully, don't rip out anything that doesn't want to come out), inspect it under a good light. Does it look like the whole hair is grayt, or is there darker color towards the top? Still, even if it is just his natural colors showing, the fact that they are showing indicates that he's losing fur on that area. It's unlikely that this is caused by mites if you got rid of them a long time ago already (but of course it could be that he got new ones from something), but there are other reasons it might happen. Are there any other spots on his body where something similar is happening? it’s definitely thinner, he let me touch him just fine, didn’t seem irritated by it. he loves to be pet anywhere so it wasn’t weird that he let me touch him there or anything. his cage mate doesn’t have any hair loss so i don’t think it’s mites. plus everything in his cage is cleaned regularly and he doesn’t leave my room, so i don’t know where he would’ve gotten mites. i’ve seen him itch his sides occasionally but i wouldn’t say it is excessively. he’s not acting lethargic either, eating, playing, grooming, etc is all normal. one thing that might explain would be that he’s recently reached full sexual maturity. i don’t know if the fur thinning has something to do with hormonal changes? thanks for all the suggestions! i hope we can figure this out
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Post by teemu on Jul 27, 2023 17:59:08 GMT
It's definitely intresting that it's happening in only one spot. Degus do shed their coat, so it could be related to that, but it normally doesn't go like this. Maybe he rubs his bum against things vigorously enough to rub hair off? That usually happens to faces, though. Have you possibly seen his brother grooming him there? Sometimes overgrooming can cause hair loss in a very limited area.
I do agree that it does not sound like parasites (they'd both have them, and it would not be in one single spot), and it does not sound like he's suffering from a severe medical crisis. Does the skin in that area seem dry or dandruffy, if you can get a look at it through the fur?
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Jul 27, 2023 21:44:14 GMT
It's definitely intresting that it's happening in only one spot. Degus do shed their coat, so it could be related to that, but it normally doesn't go like this. Maybe he rubs his bum against things vigorously enough to rub hair off? That usually happens to faces, though. Have you possibly seen his brother grooming him there? Sometimes overgrooming can cause hair loss in a very limited area. I do agree that it does not sound like parasites (they'd both have them, and it would not be in one single spot), and it does not sound like he's suffering from a severe medical crisis. Does the skin in that area seem dry or dandruffy, if you can get a look at it through the fur? thanks for responding! he doesn’t have any dandruff or dryness in that spot. and his cage mate doesn’t groom him. they’re in the middle of introduction and i had to separate them. this was after the hair issue started. i did some research and now i feel stupid for wondering what was going on… it might’ve been the stress from being mostly alone. but today they started a “fur ball of death” so they have been separated again. i made another thread asking for tips on their introduction, you can probably find it from my account if anyone wishes to help me out with that!! thank you all
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Post by savvy on Jul 27, 2023 23:02:55 GMT
I've replied to the intros post.
I have no answers on the thinning fur, but it could be stress. If its any help, I have a group of three, so definitely not alone, and Nervous Nerys has no fur on her front legs from self over grooming.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 28, 2023 18:18:11 GMT
If he has a cage mate, I'd say overgrooming. Without, it could still be overgrooming, but it could also be that he's been working his butt against something, rubbing the fur loose.
The grooming bit can be caused by stress, perhaps goo company or another underlying issue. If it's rubbing, have a look for any appropriate behaviour. You could always rearrange that part of the cage to prevent it.
The other question is substrate or food. Since this started, have you opened any new packs of either? Bedding, substrate, and even food, can sometimes arrive contaminated so, if you can't find another cause, you might still want to consider a trip to the vet.
Blue degus have fur that's the reverse of agoutis, so it's lighter at the root than the tip.
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 1, 2023 18:04:22 GMT
update: it’s gotten worse, or maybe it hasn’t? I don’t know. It was all white before, now it is grey. but it’s bigger? I put in a photo before on this thread so interpret that how it is. he hasn’t gotten a change in feed or bedding, but he is now housed alone because of a fight between him and my eldest. but the hair problem started before their big intro. before he was housed alone, and i think he was thinning because he was lonely. and maybe it’s gotten worse since he got in a fight. both degus are fine now, reintroducing them in a couple weeks. is there anything i could do to help with the hair loss?
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Post by teemu on Aug 1, 2023 18:24:15 GMT
That's definitely strange. If you hadn't mentioned that it had been going on before as well, I would right away suggest that it's due to aggressive grooming or similar interactions. Have you seen him scratching or grooming that area himself at all? Some degus express stress by pulling or biting their own fur... though usually in their hand or chest area. Does it seem to bother him at all?
Looking at the picture, there seems to be frayed fur in that area as well, which is definitely making me think that there's a physical action that's causing it, like him rubbing the area against something. I know that some animals really like to rub their butts against rough surfaces since it helps them scratch an itch, but I haven't really ever seen a rodent do it like that. The only idea that comes to mind, if it's not some kind of a *very* localized stress reaction, would be that the skin at that point is irritated and he's scratching it.
If you are able to check, does the skin below the fur in that area look redder, or otherwise different, from the rest?
I'm at a bit of a loss to say what could be done to prevent it, since it's not clear what is causing it in the first place. I would second the notion to show it to a vet at this point, since it's progressing.
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 1, 2023 19:30:49 GMT
That's definitely strange. If you hadn't mentioned that it had been going on before as well, I would right away suggest that it's due to aggressive grooming or similar interactions. Have you seen him scratching or grooming that area himself at all? Some degus express stress by pulling or biting their own fur... though usually in their hand or chest area. Does it seem to bother him at all? Looking at the picture, there seems to be frayed fur in that area as well, which is definitely making me think that there's a physical action that's causing it, like him rubbing the area against something. I know that some animals really like to rub their butts against rough surfaces since it helps them scratch an itch, but I haven't really ever seen a rodent do it like that. The only idea that comes to mind, if it's not some kind of a *very* localized stress reaction, would be that the skin at that point is irritated and he's scratching it. If you are able to check, does the skin below the fur in that area look redder, or otherwise different, from the rest? I'm at a bit of a loss to say what could be done to prevent it, since it's not clear what is causing it in the first place. I would second the notion to show it to a vet at this point, since it's progressing. the skin is not red or anything. but i have seen him grooming that spot. not to the point that it’s excessive, only seen him do it a couple times. there are no vets that’ll take degus in my area but i’ll ask people at my job since they have degus there. thank you!
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Post by teemu on Aug 1, 2023 19:51:35 GMT
No problem, we'll be absolutely happy to help! It's just a rather odd case, so finding answers is a bit difficult.
If the skin is not irritated or seemingly dry, then it's likely not that he's trying to ease some anguish over that. If you want to try, it might still be worth it to test if applying a small amount of olive oil (just enough to moisturize the skin, not like to drench his fur or anything like that, using a q-tip or similar will likely reduce the mess) would make a difference.
You might also want to keep a mental (or even a physical) note of how often you see him grooming that area, and how long it seems to last. There's a good chance that whatever this is, is caused by physical action (i.e. pulling or grooming the fur, or otherwise rubbing it). Even if he only does it a little bit each time, that can add up. Like how degus can actually wear the fur on their nose down by just rubbing against cage bars.
I don't think I asked, and if it has been mentioned somewhere I don't recall, but how old is he at the moment? Fur does sometimes thin out with age, and becomes more susceptible to damage and wear, so it might at least be a contributing circumstance if he is starting to get on in years.
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 1, 2023 20:09:32 GMT
No problem, we'll be absolutely happy to help! It's just a rather odd case, so finding answers is a bit difficult. If the skin is not irritated or seemingly dry, then it's likely not that he's trying to ease some anguish over that. If you want to try, it might still be worth it to test if applying a small amount of olive oil (just enough to moisturize the skin, not like to drench his fur or anything like that, using a q-tip or similar will likely reduce the mess) would make a difference. You might also want to keep a mental (or even a physical) note of how often you see him grooming that area, and how long it seems to last. There's a good chance that whatever this is, is caused by physical action (i.e. pulling or grooming the fur, or otherwise rubbing it). Even if he only does it a little bit each time, that can add up. Like how degus can actually wear the fur on their nose down by just rubbing against cage bars. I don't think I asked, and if it has been mentioned somewhere I don't recall, but how old is he at the moment? Fur does sometimes thin out with age, and becomes more susceptible to damage and wear, so it might at least be a contributing circumstance if he is starting to get on in years. i’ll definitely try the olive oil thank you!! kirby is pretty young, i don’t know is exact date of birth since he is a rescue (he’s had multiple rounds of mite treatment so this issue is not mite related at all) i would guess that he is maybe a year or two old. he reached sexual maturity like 5-ish months ago. i got him in October so i’m assuming he’s turning 2 soon. maybe the fur thing could be a hormonal thing?
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Post by teemu on Aug 1, 2023 20:34:47 GMT
Yeah, 2 or even 3 years would definitely not explain it yet. The main reason I'm a bit skeptical about it being something internal, like hormones or a parasite etc, is that it is so topical (affects only one defined area). If he was suffering from some sort of a hormonal issue that caused fur loss, I'd expect it to affect his whole fur, or like his whole belly or something similar. Losing fur on one flank seems very oddly specific.
Though of course, sometimes these issues manifest in really odd ways, so it's impossible to actually just flat-out deny that it could be. Have you noticed any other behavioral changes in him lately?
Also, how long has he been separated from his cagemate, and is he alone now or is there still someone with him? If he's alone now, then at least it's possible to observe if there will be a clear change going forward.
I did go through some materials on hair loss in degus, and it seems to be generally agreed that the vastly most likely reason for localized hair loss is stress-related, either due to licking or grooming excessively, or simply the fur thinning out as a stress reaction. This is especially so in situations where the skin itself looks totally fine. It's just odd since it's almost always their paws, chest and belly where it occurs, since those are he areas a stressed degu will just incidentally fiddle with (at least when they're doing it themselves, if it's another degu that does it then it can really be anywhere). But I guess the movement of grooming and scrathing the flank is still quite natural, so I guess there is no real reason it could not become stress activity.
If it is stress-related, helping him work out energy and anxiety in some better way than this might help. You could try adding new toys to his environment, giving him more play/exercise time, and similar methods.
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 2, 2023 11:52:14 GMT
Yeah, 2 or even 3 years would definitely not explain it yet. The main reason I'm a bit skeptical about it being something internal, like hormones or a parasite etc, is that it is so topical (affects only one defined area). If he was suffering from some sort of a hormonal issue that caused fur loss, I'd expect it to affect his whole fur, or like his whole belly or something similar. Losing fur on one flank seems very oddly specific. Though of course, sometimes these issues manifest in really odd ways, so it's impossible to actually just flat-out deny that it could be. Have you noticed any other behavioral changes in him lately? Also, how long has he been separated from his cagemate, and is he alone now or is there still someone with him? If he's alone now, then at least it's possible to observe if there will be a clear change going forward. I did go through some materials on hair loss in degus, and it seems to be generally agreed that the vastly most likely reason for localized hair loss is stress-related, either due to licking or grooming excessively, or simply the fur thinning out as a stress reaction. This is especially so in situations where the skin itself looks totally fine. It's just odd since it's almost always their paws, chest and belly where it occurs, since those are he areas a stressed degu will just incidentally fiddle with (at least when they're doing it themselves, if it's another degu that does it then it can really be anywhere). But I guess the movement of grooming and scrathing the flank is still quite natural, so I guess there is no real reason it could not become stress activity. If it is stress-related, helping him work out energy and anxiety in some better way than this might help. You could try adding new toys to his environment, giving him more play/exercise time, and similar methods. of course i get the odd case lol. but i’m sure it’s stress related. he’s been housed alone while i’ve been socializing him with the older degu (who has a plethora of factors that make it so he can’t really defend himself) it took six months to get them in a cage together comfortably (because of the older ones issues). During the end of those six months was when the fur problem started, which i assumed was stress due to being caged alone. so i introduced them fully. during that they got into a bad fight, which ended in separation again. this is when the fur got worse, again probably stress. now that it’s been a little over a week, they are allowed to see each other through the bars and playtime outside the cage will resume shortly. i just find it a bit odd that it took six months before he developed this stress behavior? i mean after the fight they had it makes sense that he’d be stressed out. his behavior has been completely normal as well. i guess i just haven’t noticed him messing with the fur there? he is a rescue as well, they both are. so his breeding and genetic history is also completely unknown to me. i do work with his assumed brothers at work which he has separated from to bond with the oldest one who was alone for a very long time. i think my whole situation with these two is very unique…
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 2, 2023 16:21:16 GMT
I would keep watching him to see if you can catch him doing something to cause this.
My only concern is if he is doing something due to pain, but there are lots of other possibilities. I don't think the location is an obvious one for a stress issue - they are usually in easy to reach places.
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Post by winic1 on Aug 3, 2023 10:29:27 GMT
Does he sleep against the bars, where maybe the other degu can chew on his fur? Does he maybe rub against the bars frequently, or sleep against them, and maybe there's a rough spot that is taking off his fur right there? Or something else in the cage that might be wearing off his fur in that spot?
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 5, 2023 18:37:41 GMT
I would keep watching him to see if you can catch him doing something to cause this. My only concern is if he is doing something due to pain, but there are lots of other possibilities. I don't think the location is an obvious one for a stress issue - they are usually in easy to reach places. i’ll try out the olive oil and see if it’s an irritation thing. there aren’t any vets close by that take degus so i want to try everything before i crate him up for a long drive to a clinic that will take him. i hope he’s gonna be okay
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rugoo
Warbling Degu
Posts: 35
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Post by rugoo on Aug 5, 2023 19:01:42 GMT
I’m currently on vacation with my family, my friend is taking care of the goos while i’m gone. Kirby’s light spot has gotten bigger, not by a whole lot, but enough for a ”mother” to notice. Luckily there is no skin or scabbing! there is grey (usual color) in the middle which seems thinner? with white around it (undercoat). A lot of people have told me the area it’s at makes it unlikely it’s due from stress. and my research into it makes me think he might be over grooming himself? is that even a possibility? He LOVES to be pet so maybe he over grooms as a self soothing thing?
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