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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 8:13:07 GMT
Had a shocking Degu related weekend, started off awful. One of my Degu passed away, there was not sign of anything wrong with her I gave them some fresh hay and food in the morning went out for a few hours and came back to 1 passed away Degu  I have no idea what happened but it was clear she had been gone for a while. The others were fussing over her still I am absolutely gutted. I believe she was around 8 months old and didnt look skinny or anything. I have no idea what has happened. I have been through the cage to make sure there is nothing that can hurt them etc and its all fine I then got up Sunday morning and the one that was poorly before was in a bad way, she was on the floor of the cage rolled on her side breathing out of her mouth, I picked her up and she didnt try to escape or anything, I noticed that she had a number 2 stuck, so I helped her with that and another promptly followed.. do they get constipated? After that I put her back in and checked her an hour later she was eating some Degu food and all happy again. I concluded that she must have been trying to go bathroom for ages and tired herself out massively. Then to round it off I went to PAH to buy some supplies as I was low on hay, and saw 3 gorgeous little pups and decided they were too cute to ignore, I asked gender etc all female all happy and healthy I was then told they had ran out of transport boxes and would need to buy one, I opted to race home and get my own, cleaned it and loaded it with a few degu goodies and went back. I was this time served by a different girl, before I she got there I was watching the Degu and thought one looked very male.. So I asked for them to be gendered again, turns out it was 3 boys!! Lucky I double checked or I would have a small army of Degu. Worst thing is, every time I go to the cage they are always looking for me to bring back our other little Degu I am absolutely gutted to lose one so soon |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 8:44:09 GMT
Hi there, I'm so sorry about your sudden loss. It can be very distressing and scary.
I'm not an expert in the medical field of degus, but no they should not get constipated, as she was your poorly one that indicates that she is definitely not better and I'd advise you to take her to the vets for some scans.
For the one who passed away, I cannot advise. As she was young and as far as you know healthy, perhaps consider an autopsy at the vets? Be extra vigilant re the other degus, it's pretty rare to have one die and have another with an unknown illness. I'd be inclined to take all of them to the vet to be checked out.
Have you changed any aspect of their diet? What food do they get? The brand of Nuggets, type of forage etc.
Please think before just buying from P@H, we really do not recommend them honestly, their welfare for degus sucks as we all know, they come from mass breeders too. Their adoption section is no better.
If you do decide to get another goo in place of your goo who has passed away do you have an additional cage for the goo/goos to live in whilst introductions go ahead? If you buy more than one you're going to need a large additional cage. Introductions can take a LONG time, weeks to months to years, and if you are introducing babies it may go smoothly initially but once they reach the stage of aggression due to hormones (up to the age of 18 months) then you may have to separate them again because of fighting.
What is the CARA of your current cage?
If you're going to adopt 3 degus or so, you'll need a 3 full levelled cage of 100x50 for them to live in for the meantime, or perhaps permanently if introductions don't go well or quickly.
I have 4 cages now, a 6 foot tall one, that has 5 tiers with two degus in. Then 3 separate large cages each with 1 degu in. Introductions can take over your home. I've had this setup for 8 months now nearly. Still doing introductions and making 0 progress.
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 9:09:37 GMT
I feed them Supreme Petfoods Science Selective, and they have Supreme Science Selective Timothy Hay although that will change soon as I can get some from a farm cheaper. The only thing I have changed is I recently gave them a permanent sand bath though I cannot think this would do anything bad to them! I can only assume because they were from PAH there was something up with her the whole time.
I did think about the vets but nowhere was open yesterday and she is literally back to normal running on the wheel eating and drinking (i spent about an hour watching them to make sure she was normal) she just looked absolutely knackered when I picked her up :S I think I will make an appointment for the end of the week.
I know PAH is dire, but they were so adorable lol, tiny little things I just wanted to take them with me! I do have a spare cage exactly the same as the one my other guys are in, I was originally going to get some Chinchilla as well but decided after getting Degu they are more than enough fun for me! my current cage has 4 large shelves in a zig zag and about a million bolt on wooden shelves/gnaw toys and the other would be much the same
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 9:57:40 GMT
What unlimited forage do you give them? So 4 full levels of 100x50 is good for 3/4 degus. The little shelves don't count because they aren't "running room".  I would personally get them to the vets as soon as you can to check them all out, an autopsy might have been useful but as you say, I doubt you can get one done now. Most vets are available for emergency appointments on a Sunday do bare in mind for any possible future problems. I'm just worried about the poorly one to be honest. How many degus do you have now? Would you be considering more? Sorry for the 20 questions, I just don't want you to get in too deep with too many degus or confused. |
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Post by ntg on Apr 10, 2017 10:15:19 GMT
I'm sorry for your loss. Is the degu who passed the one who had a fall or is that the one who is currently ill?
I wouldn't rush into getting more degus adsh, your pair are currently quite young and are entering the adolescent phase which means that any introductions will be more bumpy. Plus you have your cage building plans so I would get the new cage sorted first. Then there is also this unexplained death, you want to have a quarantine of sorts to make sure that it's just been the one degu that's been ill and it's nothing contagious at this point.
Just take your time, look and carefully plan for more degus. There is no rush, and with you being a relatively inexperienced owner, it's best to read and prepare as much as you can before jumping in with both feet.
On a somewhat related note as this has happened before - have you checked that your carbon monoxide detector is working if you have gas heating/cooking in the house? It's a long shot but it's always best to check.
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 11:01:52 GMT
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 11:05:25 GMT
Sorry Ntg i did not see your reply, I do plan on completing the cage first I just seen the little ones in PAH and had an impulse buy moment!
The one that passed was as far as I know completely healthy, which is why its such a mystery to me. I plan on using the new cage to do the introductions as it will be easier to have them next to each other without being able to fight.
I have carbon monoxide detectors all over the house I am an on call fireman so I know just how bad that can be!
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Post by ntg on Apr 10, 2017 11:13:36 GMT
Haha I understand, their little faces are just too tempting at times - just ask @emdalliance  I stopped even setting foot in P@H as I was always tempted by them (and all the other animals). Good to hear you have the alarms, and are aware of the dangers. It's always better to be cautious, particularly with unexplained deaths of small animals. By forage, we mean hay, leaves, herbs, flowers etc. Have a look at the bought forage list for examples and images of different mixes available commercially deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15657/bought-herb-leaf-flower-mixes |
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Post by ntg on Apr 10, 2017 11:15:16 GMT
So is the one that was constipated the one that had a fall a couple of weeks back?
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 11:23:09 GMT
Yeah the same one, I am fairly sure that is what the prob is, I had to help her go for a number 2 twice after that she had a bit of food and water and was back in the wheel, its really odd! I think I will get her checked over again, most likely at the weekend as I got to do 60 hours over 4 days at work I have kept a very close eye on her ever since she was poorly the first time, I worry about her all the time lol. PAH is dangerous for me, they little ones were so adorable they didnt even have the full fur on the end of their tails! they said they were 7 to 8 weeks old |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 11:24:59 GMT
Forage is a really important part of their diet. I suggest perhaps you have a look at the beginners section and go through it all and perhaps make a plan? Especially the diet section. We (most of us) really follow the 50/50 diet.
Or make a separate thread based on what you read and we will advise further. How many degus do you have? This is another thing to consider when thinking of adopting or buying more. I have 5 degus and I spend £100+ a month just on FOOD. That doesn't including bedding or toys or anything, and I don't especially go overboard on food either, I buy the bare minimum I can as I'm a student.
Yeah, I bought Poppy from P@H because she was being picked on and was too adorable to not save lol. Kev was in their adoption section and they were adamant he should be spending his life as a lone goo, who they said was 3-4 months old and was clearly at least 12 months. So I adopted him and neutered him. Pickle I got from a bunch of babies abandoned at the vets which I helped find homes for.
When considering introductions you don't want them on different levels within the same cage. So they need all separate cages so they have their own space. Having degus in the same cage separated above and below creates a "hierarchy" literally based on height, the goo at the top seeming more important so everyone gets aggro.
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 11:41:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 11:43:26 GMT
Hay isn't really forage, they have to have hay anyway. Do you not give forage? Definitely look at the diet section please forage is super important! As are seeds. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 11:48:26 GMT
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 12:04:43 GMT
Ah I never knew that, I just did what PAH people said :/ my bad, I have ordered 2kg of JR Farm Garden herbs, I also seen some nibble grass, is that any good for them? Looks kinda cool lol |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 12:16:47 GMT
Yes, please make sure you read all of the beginners section and then the diet section. Ideally degus need 3 different types of forage per day. So it's good to buy and try lots of different things, or make your own mixes. Nibble grass is fine. P@H shouldn't be listened to, their advice is appalling. They also need a teaspoon each per day of seed, which you can buy on ratrations. www.ratrations.com/degu-seed-mix-p-1235.htmlIt's more economical buying the 5KG one. |
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 12:23:01 GMT
Do Zooplus do any appropriate seed? I don't get how they can sell Degu and other pets without giving over good advice.. surely they get training?!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 12:36:52 GMT
Zooplus don't no. RR is the only place we can currently get it from.
I personally buy from RR because I'm buying seed anyway, so I have to pay the postage. They sell pretty much the same stuff and more.
Open two browser pages and have the list of safe forage and ingredients up on one half, then RR on the other half of your screen. I generally buy 250/500g of everything safe. Once I figure out their favourite ones I buy more of that and less of the other stuff, but making sure I have the variety of at least 3 different types of forage per day.
To answer your question, pet shops don't have to actually do anything major in terms of training and knowledge, they just have to make sure they aren't committing any animal cruelty offences (which we argue they are by selling tiny housing). They do whatever will make them the most money. If they told you everything degus need as a minimum and you realised the cost and time and effort, they'd barely sell any.
Degus are very demanding pets, cost wise due to housing and toys and food (hay, nuggets and seed and forage), vet bills (teeth problems mostly), DIY jobs, extra housing for introductions, bedding. Then time taking for feeding them daily, rearranging their homes to make life more exciting, buying new toys and recreation, making toys and rec, making cages that are suitable, doing introductions, having around an hour outside of the cage every day, cleaning cages, training the degus, the stress of any fights that occur up to the age of 18 months.
I don't think anyone would buy them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 12:40:03 GMT
The same goes for all pet store animals, especially fish.
Pet shops will sell you 5/10 goldfish and say they can go in a 50L tank.
Whereas in reality, one small-medium sized goldfish needs at LEAST 80 litres to itself. An additional 60L per goldfish of a similar size. So if you had 6 goldfish you'd need a 380L tank, which no petshops even sell. They sell those tiny plastic tubs for crying out loud, there's NOTHING that can live in there suitably. People think betas can live in pint glasses and tiny tiny bowls, betas should have around 20L tanks for one beta. Food is also another problem re fish.
Just never listen to a single word you hear in a petshop. Unless there's a customer like me in there, correcting every word they say to people and starting arguments lol.
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Post by adsh on Apr 10, 2017 12:54:38 GMT
Ah I feel bad that they havent got what they need, I got it all arriving tomorrow now, its going to be like Christmas for them  On a side note, the cage project is in full flow now I got the frame wood for £48, B&Q quoted me £145 delivered!! Always better to go to the mill I suppose. As you mention it, one of the staff managed to drop a goldfish yesterday in the store the Mrs was outraged! |
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I have no idea what happened but it was clear she had been gone for a while. The others were fussing over her still 
I stopped even setting foot in P@H as I was always tempted by them (and all the other animals).