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Post by goolover on Jan 30, 2017 22:11:14 GMT
Thought I would post here as we are talking about dental problems already. So......not good news for Nina. Her breathing is too bad and her lungs don't sound good for sedation so the vet can have a good look at her mouth and see what is exactly going on. We know she has spurs and there is some bleeding going on but that is only looking through that mouth microscope they use. The vet said if he puts her under, she wont make it. So its a no go for now. She is however responding well to baytril and her breathing has improved since friday so we are to continue with this for 2 weeks to see if her breathing improves so that vet can carry out dental work. He thinks the spur and route problems have compromised the nasal/respiratory ducts and the infection has spread to her lungs hence the breathing problems. If her breathing improves she can have the dental work done but it will have to be carried out every 2/3 months. If it doesn't improve then, well, we only have one option. Don't even want to think about this and we have been in tears but to be honest we knew the op was a no go before we took her in. We have to be brave for her and do what is best so that she doesn't suffer. She was running around today and full of energy so its hard to think that we may loose her. Couldn't sleep last night and keep sitting by her cage gazing at her and telling her how much we love her. Wish she could understand and know how much we are trying to get her better. My heart is aching and we haven't even lost her yet but you just have that feeling sometimes don't you that its not good. You never know though, 2 weeks could be all we need to get her back on track.
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Post by bouncy on Jan 30, 2017 22:50:42 GMT
I've got my fingers crossed for you and Nina!
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 31, 2017 14:44:52 GMT
Hope you don't mind me putting this in its own thread, I think it's important and complicated so needs its own thread.
I'm so sorry you are facing these impossible choices, it's so hard, I know just what you mean gazing at them full of love and helplessness.
Can you tell us about the breathing from the beginning? What investigations have been done and treatments tried?
If it offers you some hope, my Flossie has had ongoing breathting difficulties for about 4 years that seem to wax and wane, but despite my extensive best efforts I haven't pinned down what the cause is. She had sedation to investigate her breathing problem while it was quite bad and sailed through the gas anaesthetic no problem. Perhaps you could try extreme measures like solid hay cakes only, no substrate, air purifier and nubuliser for say 4 weeks to see if you get enough improvement to allow the sedation for the dental treatment?
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Post by deguconvert on Jan 31, 2017 17:10:20 GMT
I hope her breathing greatly improves, and even increases in capacity. Sorry she is so unwell, love!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 31, 2017 19:13:29 GMT
I am sure that Nina knows you love her.
I hope that her breathing improves with the Baytril. If her breathing doesn't improve, I would still take the risk of the anesthesia so that she can undergo the dental work. There is always the chance that she will survive and have many, many months of quality life to follow. My degu Lilac did. She too had breathing issues and was expected to not make it through the anesthesia but I thought it would be better to do something and have her pass away under anesthesia than not take the chance and have her put down without trying. In her case, she lasted a very happy year and a half with the help of Baytril, Metacam, and special feeding. She did not need dental work again for that whole time and the roots in her nasal cavities progressed very, very slowly.
Sending all the best to you and Nina.
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Post by goolover on Jan 31, 2017 20:25:19 GMT
moletteuk - No problem moving posts, thankyou. To be honest this has seemed to come for nowhere. She started to touch her mouth quite abit about a month ago around the time Lula was unwell so we thought we better get her up to get looked at but we would do one goo at a time and juggling them all is hard as we have 3 colonys. That was it though, the only sign we had, no issues with eating, not unwell, not dropping food etc. Had her checked at the vets who could see spurs and overgrowth issues through a microscope that he popped into her mouth. We set yesterday as the date to get it done but friday just gone she started to click through her nose and breath hard. We started straight away with baytril and loxicom as we have supply's in to 1) ease her mouth and 2) start to fight any infection. She has picked up in her energy levels but her breathing is still hard. Took her to see the vet yesterday and he listened to her breathing and he worries that sedation would kill her at this moment in time, whereby if we start to improve her breathing she will have a better chance. He mentioned a nubuliser if the meds didn't work. Yes I will clear the cage and my friend has a air purifier so that's great. Would you believe she is 320g, the little podge! She is on 1.5ml baytril twice a day and also giving her 0.08ml Loxicom once per day. Will look those hay cakes up. yasmin - Yes we said yesterday that we would rather her go trying to get teeth put right than get her put to sleep. As we still don't know the full extent of her dental problems we don't know if we would need to constantly keep on top of it but fingers crossed it can be managed once she has the work done. Thanks for your positive words, so good to hear stories like this. Thanks so much guys, you have lifted my spirits today x
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 31, 2017 20:41:14 GMT
I see now, I somehow had it in my head that the breathing problem was an ongoing problem. Hopefully, since it's not been going on long, then antibiotics will sort it out fairly quickly. Probably no need to do the air purification and low dust measures if it's an infection rather than allergy or dust problem. The nebuliser may be worth considering, it might be possible to put antibiotics and steroids in it if the vet was up for that. You can use saline and F10SC, which is strictly a disinfectant but seems to be safe to use inhaled and can have some affect at directly treating bacteria in the lungs. It can also help shift mucousy fluid and give some symptom relief. I can give you more info on the whole nebuliser thing if you decide to try it.
I'm hoping that was a typo on the baytril dose, 0.15ml would be closer to normal? Are you reviewing the baytril after 7 days?
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Post by goolover on Jan 31, 2017 23:47:16 GMT
moletteuk - Yes forgive my typo error oops. Going to review her Monday so we can see if she is improving with the medication and go from there really. More information on the nebuliser would be great. Thanks again
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 1, 2017 11:31:18 GMT
I got the Omron NE-C801 nebuliser. I was glad I chose that one as it is a childrens one, so the flow rate is a bit lower and the noise and vibration is a bit lower - an adults one must be very loud and difficult for goos to get used to, Alice still won't come anywhere near the nebuliser, it's a good job Flossie is harder to scare. I put the mouthpiece attachment on, which gives quite a directed flow and just fire it in her face.
The solution to nebulise is a mix of F10 SC disinfectant/ antiseptic with saline at a ratio of 1:250 I bought the F10 on ebay or amazon and got the saline from Screwfix as an 'eye rinse station refill'. I put a small amount of F10 in the saline as soon as I opened it to keep it sterile, and made up about 100ml of F10 saline solution with 0.4ml of F10 (or a bit less) using a syringe to measure the F10.
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Post by goolover on Feb 1, 2017 18:22:01 GMT
moletteuk - fantastic, i'm on it, will let you know how we do
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Post by goolover on Feb 2, 2017 0:39:39 GMT
moletteuk - Have ordered the nebuliser and saline off amazon and F10 from ebay. Does it do a quick blast or do you have to hold the mask to them for abit, is it on a timer type of thing? Do you do it everyday until they improve?
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 2, 2017 11:15:09 GMT
The nebuliser just has an on/off switch, watch out for it running out of liquid, you will notice it spluttering when the fluid runs out.
Go cautiously at first, maybe even try just saline, or very little F10 to start with so it doesn't taste funny to her the first time. You will probably find that the nebuliser shifts her mucous and it may take a little while for her to figure out how to cope with this and clear it, they aren't very good at coughing or snorting out the mucous, so watch out for this. I think once you get in full swing it should be 10 to 20 mins twice a day. I rarely did more than 10 mins because Flossie would end up in some awkward place where I was crouching painfully to point it at her. I think it's a case of trying it and then assessing if you think it is helping.
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Post by goolover on Feb 2, 2017 13:44:32 GMT
Thanks for this moletteuk, waiting for a call back from my vet as Nina is really struggling now and her breathing is worse than ever. She is breathing through her mouth only now and we can see her struggling. Don't know what to do for the best, I don't want her to suffer, just don't know what to do!
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 2, 2017 15:00:52 GMT
Oh dear Have you tried doing a steam inhalation?
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Post by goolover on Feb 2, 2017 17:54:24 GMT
Hospitalising her for nebulizing, will give her a good chance.
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Post by bouncy on Feb 2, 2017 17:58:56 GMT
Sorry she's gone downhill. I hope the hospitalisation will pay dividends. Presumably they'll be able to create a tent for her?
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Post by goolover on Feb 2, 2017 18:07:34 GMT
Yes bouncy, he is a great vet and I know she is in capable hands. Will see what tomorrow brings.
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 2, 2017 21:28:28 GMT
Hoping really good things, Goolover!
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Post by moletteuk on Feb 2, 2017 22:01:11 GMT
Sending best wishes x
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Post by deguconvert on Feb 3, 2017 16:12:02 GMT
How is Nina doing today?
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