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Post by bouncy on Aug 18, 2016 16:33:10 GMT
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Post by goolover on Aug 18, 2016 18:32:14 GMT
rofl that's informative!
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Post by winic1 on Aug 18, 2016 19:09:05 GMT
Gee, thanks, Bouncy. But I have to tell you, I have professional poop experience. In my former life, I worked as a research chemist (that's American for Chemistry, not pharmacist who makes drugs). I synthesized chemicals called flocculants, for cleaning up wastewater streams. One project was for municipal waste. As in sewage. As in poop water and everything else that flushes down the toilet. You flush, water pushes whatever's there through pipes and more pipes and more pipes until it gets to the sewage treatment facility. Where they have millions of gallons of poopy sludgewater running through the place every day. What to do with millions of gallons of poopy sludgewater every day? ? Can't dump it in the ocean, or the rivers, or the lakes. Too much. So, first you 'treat' it. Let bacteria and things digest it. Turns fresh poopwater into, well, essentially, rotted poopwater. On its way to compost type stuff. But still, poopwater. Black, gooey, smelly, sludgey poopwater. The more it gets treated and digested, the less it smells. Some wastewater plants treat a lot, some only the basic requirement, costs more to do more treatment. Then what? It's maybe 5% poop, 95% water, still, and you have millions of gallons every day. Gotta get the water out, so you have something drier, more concentrated, that can be shipped to a landfill or burned or composted or whatever. That's where flocculants come in. Mix in the chemical just right, it grabs all the little tiny sludge particles and forms them into 'flocs', little pea-sized or so globs, floating in fairly clean water (if you do it right). Then you can run it through a filter, and then a press to squeeze even more water out, then dispose of it, and recycle the water you filtered and squeezed out. So, after making the flocculants, we would go down into the bowels of one of the two local sewage treatment plants, crank open the 4" (12cm) pipe and collect a bunch of 5 gallon (20 L) pails of treated sewage. Poop water. Back in the lab, we would carefully measure out portions, test with flocculants, filter, squeeze in a press, then weigh and then dry the 'sludge cookies' to see how effective the different flocculants were. One sewage plant, in the big ordinary city, did only basic treatment. Smelly smelly smelly!!! still kinda chunky. after a holiday weekend in the summer, full of corn-on-the-cob particles. yuck. The other, in Greenwich, CT, which is one of the richest places in the USA, did full treatment on their sewage, primary and secondary, and then some. The plant even had flowers planted all around it. This sludge barely stunk (for sewage). So, I have proof that: Rich People's Sh*t Don't Stink. And, when you consider what we did at work, the actual, hands-on work, I am one of a relatively few people who can say that, actually, literally, "I have squeezed the p*ss out of sh*t"
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Post by goolover on Aug 18, 2016 20:21:24 GMT
Had to do a course recently through work and they ask us to tell the group something that no one else had in common, said I was a twin but another lady in the room said she was, so I said its a twin brother I have and then she said yes its a twin brother I have........what's the chances of that! Now........if I were you, I could have said 'I have squeezed the p*ss out of of sh*t'.......i'm sure I would have been greeted with silence and a 'eh' look but no one else could have said that lol
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 18, 2016 20:40:48 GMT
ROFL!!! - Winic!!! I so know what you mean! From "soft edible poops" to the male cleansing habits, to how degus can direct their stream of urine/washing walls of said substance, to olympic worthy poo flinging, to constant humping between cage mates regardless of gender, to how pups from 6-10 weeks of age can impregnate or be impregnated, rubbing prolapsed penises with KY to try and get them back into place . . . we discuss some pretty "intimate" topics!!!
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Post by bouncy on Aug 18, 2016 22:09:55 GMT
Oh Winic1 I'm surprised we never crossed paths! I used to work for the UK's largest water utility, which also owned part of American Water and owned a filtration company doing just that kinda stuff! I ended up on audit reviews at either the customer service centre (only qualified accountant and it's where the cash goes), or regulatory reviews on sewerage, or process and year end financial reviews for the US filtration company. Irony is, the first person I met there is someone I'm still friends with, and we share the same birthday, so have this competition to see who can get the greetings in first
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Post by winic1 on Aug 18, 2016 23:17:37 GMT
I worked for American Cyanamid, which became Cytec Industries. One of our big competitors was your Allied Colloids.
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Post by randomname on Aug 20, 2016 10:12:00 GMT
Some interesting CV's on here Am not sure what I thought you all did for a living, but wouldn't have guessed at poop experts! & more than one? That's weird Obviously I know the babies are eating each other's poops, but BB doesn't seem like any other degu I've met. He doesn't have much of the behaviour, vocal sounds, food preferences etc I've seen before. Don't know if that's because he's had a bad start, or has been denied the opportunity to behave normally. Maybe it's just since he's been with me or because he's been ill. Either way, I can't seem to find any soft poops from the babies (think they've probably eaten them) & BB shows no interest in any of the babies stuff, including poops. It's kind of weird he's not bothered by their scent in his cage. But then he's shown little interest in them so far. He is continuing to eat, has been raking through his food bowl, eating all the pea flakes, ignoring the rest. He's ignored most stuff, but will often eat them if I hand them to him. He's back to loving all the seeds & a tiny bit of forage here & there. It's brilliant, but he's not eating enough by any means. He is definitely looking for food much more often though, & he seems really well in himself, so am hopeful he'll eat more in time. He's totally off meds for the 2nd day today, seems very well. Acting normally & seems happy enough.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 20, 2016 13:53:20 GMT
Glad to hear he is doing a bit better. I'm actually having similar problems with my two being really fussy about food at the moment, they have totally gone off all pellets, they only want to eat veg and seeds and like you, I can persuade them to eat a bit more by hand feeding. I'm seeing some behavioral weirdness from them and I think they are having social issues coping as a pair after the loss of Molly, I haven't seen any difficulty eating at all, so I think at the moment it is stress related. I wonder if BB could have stress related appetite issues? So you see any more activity from him when he is least interested in food?
I've worked in the poop industry too on the civil engineering side lol!
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 20, 2016 20:51:38 GMT
Good to see you, Moletteuk!
I'm glad BB is doing well two days away from the meds. I think you raise a very valid possibility that he may have never been given the opportunity to learn and behave like a degu. Let's just postulate . . . perhaps he was the result of missexed degus that then had a litter of pups . . . and the pups were given away to friends, or the friends of children, when they were observed to be weaned, which is likely around the four week mark. This would result in having learned very little of what is normal and good degu behavior, little would have been learned for food needs, and there would have been short exposure to the solid foods in the birth environment. Enter into the new home and, if his interest in dog food is any indication, he was fed dog food rather than degu appropriate foods, which would have messed up his gut from day one. Then comes the day that he is just not allowed to live in the house, and he is "set free" in the park where he must fend for himself with absolutely no idea of what to eat or how to live. There are undeniably things that we cannot guess at, that he may have been given for food, nor what environment/cage he lived in, so it could be worse or better than pictured above, but whatever it was, he certainly has not had the right things to promote a healthy, well developed degu character.
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Post by randomname on Aug 20, 2016 20:56:19 GMT
No Moletteuk, the first Saturday he was ill he was pretty lifeless - I thought he was dead. He definitely had gut problems & is feeling better now. I do think that on top of whatever was wrong, he's either been fed some rubbishy diet (suspect a rabbit muesli mix or something) or has been through a traumatic experience that may have included losing cage mates, being dumped by his owner (& dumped in the park, but I doubt that!) or both. I just hope the gut problems don't come back, as getting him to eat is hard enough! All we can do is offer lots of different things, hopefully they'll eat something. BB has started trying a few things he'd ignore before, so that's hopeful. I have also noticed he's much more likely to eat normal food if it's in a certain bowl, in a certain place. I usually scatter food in the forage, but he doesn't forage much so doesn't eat much of it. It's also harder to keep track myself of what he's eaten, so a bowl is better for now. I do wonder how much to encourage the hand feeding. For a few days, he wouldn't eat unless I handed him it. Am glad that has improved & he's eating of his own accord several times a day, but won't try anything new unless I give it to him. I don't want him to rely too much on me to eat, that's not healthy. I did think getting the babies would bring out his inner degu a bit, I at least expected him to react some way, but he really hasn't. Nothing at all either way, even when he's got their scents in his cage. I find that really, really weird. Maybe he hasn't been kept with others, has always been a lone goo - but even then, I'd expect curiosity. I'm still going to try them together, but am beginning to wonder if that's really the thing he needs most. Maybe he had a strong bond with his last human, & is missing them, rather than other goos? He's not a happy, healthy lad & I don't know what to do to help him. Another pooxpert?! lol. So many! What is the correlation there?!Is there a goo/poo link?! For the record, I've never worked in the poop industry but I have used it services & am a satisfied customer!!
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Post by randomname on Aug 20, 2016 21:15:44 GMT
Great minds think alike deguconvert! Actually, what you described was exactly what my (beautiful) Cat was like. I got her aged 4 weeks, as the owner was threatening to drown the litter. She was weaned, but way too young to leave mum. I bought her home & my male collie dog, Bengi, took over as her mum! Years later I found one of his nipples was totally flat & deformed where she was trying to suckle! He used to roll up in a ball (my house was so cold as I couldn't afford coal, I was only 16) & she'd sleep buried in his fur. She never learned to hunt, never pounced or chased or played like a cat usually does. She was happy, but she was like no other cat I've ever known. Even cat haters liked her, she was much more like a dog. She was nearly 23 when she died a couple of years ago, & I miss her so much. I'd never want another like her though, as she should have had the chance to learn from her mum & be a normal cat. I have adopted a tom called Eddie now, he has FIV, but he's healthy & well. He's the total opposite to Cat - he's a proper cat! He's obviously roamed a lot, been a stray, & has destroyed most of my wallpaper in most of my house in less than a year! I am adjusting, he's driving me crazy, but I like the fact he's a "proper" cat, he's just doing what cats do. I've only ever known groups of goos, never had a single one, so I don't know if BB's behaviour is because he has had friends & misses them or if he's always been a lone little guy. If he had friends I'd assume he'd react to the babies though? I suppose the only way to make his life better is to offer him the opportunity to do things, eat things, have friends etc - it's up to him if he wants to or not. Would be typical if I've got these babies for nothing! 2 cages was not my plan! 4 (or even 1) degu was not my plan! Blimming degus, come over here, take over your life, make you worry, keep you awake & scatter poo all over. (Still better than kids though!)
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emergency
Aug 20, 2016 21:24:03 GMT
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Post by Bexi87 on Aug 20, 2016 21:24:03 GMT
The eating out of your hand could be a trust thing, because of how poorly he has been he might be cautious of trying new things and taking it from your hand mighty make him feel a bit more confident to try it?
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 20, 2016 21:36:16 GMT
I wonder if perhaps you should give him the chance to meet the pups? Maybe one on one . . . in a bathtub if you have one? That way they are easier to scoop up if you need to remove one. If you were to put in something that a degu could hide in, something out of the cage that BB feels comfortable with, then he could hide if he needed to. If you just bring in one pup, then hopefully it wouldn't be too overwhelming . . . at least not as much as three of them would be. Maybe he would be piqued enough to begin to show some interest and begin to engage in life a bit more. It could take several introductory events for that to show though. It does seem that he is deeply depressed.
So perhaps he had a deep bond with his human, and no one else . . . no other animals let alone degus, and their rejection/abandonment of him has left him broken. Oh how this breaks my heart!!
Do you think you could try the intros? Also, have you considered having any form of free play time/space for your degus? Perhaps having some free time with you, and with the/pup/s would perk him up? Am I making sense? Feel like I'm talking in circles but with none of the ends actually meeting up.
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Post by spottydegu on Aug 21, 2016 11:27:36 GMT
I find the issue with a bathtub (mine are kept in a bathroom) is that they find it fun jumping out of the bathtub
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Post by bouncy on Aug 21, 2016 12:49:24 GMT
My rats used to find it hilarious fun doing that!
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Post by goolover on Aug 21, 2016 16:30:41 GMT
Mine try to get out the bath but keep slipping back down again, after so many attempts they just look at me as if to say help lol
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Post by randomname on Aug 26, 2016 0:03:06 GMT
Hi guys, quick update & good news. BB's been off meds a week now. His appetite has steadily improved. It's not 100% & I am still monitoring his intake, but he's eating enough that I'm not too worried now. He has been going to his food bowl, rooting around, eating all the good stuff (pea flakes, seeds) & going back later for the other stuff. He has been throwing the pellets out of the cage, but eating pretty much everything else. He even emptied his bowl over night one night. He seems great in himself - back to normal 100%. He's been active on his wheel, pootles round investigating a lot & back to wanting attention & contact with people. He's much less scared & will eat out of my hand now, so guess we have bonded over this near death experience! He doesn't seem at all lonely, listless, sad or ill now. His weight looks much better too, back to a squishy big bum boy almost. Fur, eyes & general health all look top notch. Lots of new hair growth on his previously bald tail. I am beginning to think about proper introductions, but might wait a couple of weeks to do it. I'd prefer he was feeling tip top & not at all vulnerable when we do it. Have been watching the babies - there is definitely a dominant, a middle & a bottom structure to their group. The dominant is quick to stop the other's eating anywhere near him, chases the other 2, starts boxing matches, lots of warbling & whiny noises sometimes. The middle one is friendly with the dominant, but gets a bit bullied by him.He doesn't let that stop him from trying to get away with getting on the wheel or eating when dominant guy doesn't want him to. He gets on great with the low status guy. The poor bottom rung dude one is Jelly, the smallest. He doesn't even try to challenge the other 2, just accepts he has to wait to eat, or uses the wheel when the other two aren't. Thank god, or it'd end badly I fear! So, everything seems normal to me there. I'd love to think that BB & Jelly would get on, & would probably choose Jelly to meet him first as he seems pretty mellow. Unfortunately the babies look very very similar, & telling the difference is hard! Also the cage set up means that when I go to get one out, they're all going to run round like crazy & I'll never be able to tell who is who in the melee! I can only tell by behaviour so far, & I have to watch them for a good few minutes together to be able to tell the difference. This is probably a different thread in the introductions section, so I'll end this thread by thanking everyone who commented & gave advice. It means so much to me as I have major anxiety & get really worried when the little ones get sick. Every single comment helped me feel less alone, less panicky & more empowered to help BB. He's really doing well & I don't doubt for one minute that good vet care & great advice on here probably saved his life. Thank you guys, from BB & me xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Post by goolover on Aug 26, 2016 0:49:17 GMT
Funnily enough I was thinking about you earlier and was gonna post asking how BB was but got side tracked with my lot! He's such a lovely boy and was such a shame when he was going through the bad spell but its amazing to hear how well he is doing and he is through the worst of it. Its funny how it takes something bad to create a bond but I think I mentioned that I honestly believe they connect feeling better, to you. They have that intelligence I think! The pups have obviously sorted out who's boss and the way you describe sounds perfectly normal. Whining and boxing is the best way to describe it, although if you do have a successful introduction, there will be more dominance fighting to see who is top. Have a feeling it will be BB and the dominant between the pups at the moment will have to settle for second position! Jelly lol, there's always a quiet one who is everyone's best friend and knows their place, who's happy to eat last and lie on top of the others to keep them warm during sleep time. Our Chloe is like that and even when she is whined at she just does as she's told and never argues back. I'm sure Jelly and BB will get on to. It will be very interesting to hear BB's reaction to them having been on his own for awhile now. I remember Lula didn't make a sound when we got her and introduced her to Millie and Nina but after about 3 days she started to vocalise again so I really think BB will find his voice once he has others to talk to. Two of my youngsters look the same and don't have any markings so I can't tell them apart so I know what you mean, I can only tell the way they react to me who is who. Looking forward to hearing about the introduction, I know it will be an anxious time but wouldn't it be great for BB to have some friends, good luck hun xx
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Post by dops on Aug 26, 2016 15:09:14 GMT
Yay that is amazing news! Have been following this thread since the beginning, BB seems like such a little trooper and he deserves such a good home, he's lucky he found you! Good luck with introductions, keep us updated please xx
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