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Post by moletteuk on Jun 10, 2015 19:53:00 GMT
Great, glad we cleared that up!
You know I'm not sure if I would do a thorough clean on the original cage, I think I would spot clean but try to leave some familiar smells around the place, she's had a lot of upheaval so you don't want her not recognising her territory. Is it definitely worth moving her again?
I honestly don't know if Pinata will make another nest, maybe it will depend how far away her due date is? The current pups will be mobile and off exploring in a week to 10 days or so. Deguconvert might know, I don't want to shatter your illusions but I haven't actually had any pups, I've just been hanging around degu forums a long time!
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 10, 2015 20:02:48 GMT
Pups could be mobile as early as fours days old. Some very adventurous pups will leave the nest the second day! You need to be sure that your cage is pup proof, they can't get out, and that there are no high places they can have a fall from. Pinata may make her own nest or may use the one your new mom has already made. Depends on what she wants. Besides, some moms like the nest they build and stay in it all the time, while others are more nervous and move to/make a new nest every other day or so.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 11, 2015 17:59:49 GMT
Hiya! I decided not to give it a thorough clean once I thought about it - I just swept it up put fresh paper and bedding down and just sieved the old sand bath. I put the nest back in the original place - however not long after she tried to put them in a hammock (which I removed quickly as it's super high!) and then she has made a new nest propped up on the highest level against the door.... I put a bit of cardboard around it so I dont run the risk of any babies falling out but that's just BRILLIANT lol (not >.<) I gave her loads of extra nesting material and it's really interesting to watch. She is obviously stressed from the move but is clearly concerned about her pups. I was pretty amazed how fast Bandita put on weight over the last fortnight - basing it on that Pinata over the last few days has gotten noticeably larger.
Question: Pinata is VERY vocal atm. Making very soft, very sad/concerned squeaks. 24/7. In fact it's driving me batshit crazy and I have no idea why she's doing it. She is getting involved with the pups, however. Is this possibly something she is doing just out of general stress/being pregnant herself? Also unusually for her she is chewing the bars a LOT, I think trying to get back in with daddy degu downstairs.
So far though - all is ok. They are pretty damned cute and btw I miscounted for sure - there are 6. I was able to do a proper check while moving them but it was a bit sketchy in the dark before.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 11, 2015 22:54:16 GMT
I suspect that she is missing daddy degu alright!! Hopefully she will adjust, but I am sure that at the moment both you and she are feeling the change very intensely, but for different reasons.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 13, 2015 21:11:41 GMT
I have some very sad news. Earlier my partner and I heard a very sad sound - it did sound like a baby degu in pain. We quickly checked and couldn't find anything - we assumed that maybe mum ran them over or squashed them or something. I haven't checked on them in a while and indeed one of them was dead - eaten in half. I realize its a natural behavior and that it could be down to some kind of defect/stress and judging by the sound mum murdered it. I'm not entirely sure if I should be checking them at all at this point. I have no idea if they are skinny/underweight or what. She seems to take care of them. I am at a loss. Should I just chuck food & water in and leave them COMPLETELY alone for the next few days or should I attempt to check? Thanks
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Post by kalraii on Jun 14, 2015 0:12:18 GMT
Eurgh - this is terrible. I have to sleep in the animal room with the degus ANYWAY. But I'm laying in bed and sometimes I am hearing similar squeak to the one earlier - I have no clue if I should check or what but it's so sad to think I'm lying here listening to Bandita commit baby degu homicide... Pinata like I said has been quite vocal and distressed - not aggressive at all but definitely desiring to get out. I'm wondering if I should put her in a spare cage? However I am wondering if I literally just need to ensure they have food/water and completely ignore them for a few days with possibly covering half the cage so mum feels more at ease?
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 14, 2015 6:07:16 GMT
Oh honey!! I am so sorry, how awful! It is unusual behavior for a mother to be killing her pups, and if she is, I think she must be feeling some unusual stresses. The scent of human on pups is seldom a problem. I assume you are providing plenty of food and water, so that should not be an issue. Perhaps trying what you suggest, to produce as calm and quiet an atmosphere as possible, could turn things around. Perhaps putting Pinata in a separate cage will help? I would be surprised it if did though, as they are such social creatures and they greatly desire the companionship of other degus. I don't know what to suggest at this point. I will be thinking though, and should anything come to mind, I will post. Please do keep us informed of what the night has brought. I hope it will not be more deaths. I really, really hope it will not be more.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 14, 2015 9:36:11 GMT
Is there any more news this morning?
I would check to see if you can confirm what is happening or pick up on anything. Do check Piñata isn't upsetting Bandita and babies. Did Bandita seem like she had settled it a bit before this?
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Post by kalraii on Jun 14, 2015 11:48:05 GMT
I just checked now - all 5 are well and kicking PHEW. After doing the baby degu count I give both mum and Pinata a treat - which they take without hesitation. Something strange did happen that's not occurred before: When I was creeping my hand to the nest Pinata attacked my arm once. Definitely telling me off. Mum degu is fine though and will happily sit in the nest with her babies and let me stroke her? Today is the 5th day and I gotta say the babies are active but spending little to no time out of the nest. I have lots of food and a small shallow water dish available at all times - should I be seeing the babies munching already? Thanks. Fingers crossed no more incidents. Pinata and Bandita take turns in the nest and have never been apart (very few past squabbles) so I have decided to leave her in. I think shes more territorial and protective than the laid back Bandita!
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 14, 2015 19:02:14 GMT
There might be tiny nibbles of hard foods taking place, but the pups will be getting most of their nutrition through Mum's milk still. I am so relieved and glad to hear that all the remaining pups are healthy and alive, and that Bandita and Pinata are peacefully living together. That Pinata is protective in a more assertive manner is not uncommon, there are definitely females that tend that way, so just give her more space and avoid putting your hand into the nest. As the pups age, she will relax. Being pregnant herself she will be this way, probably until she has delivered her pups and they are 3-4 weeks of age.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 16, 2015 12:19:34 GMT
Hiya all - EURGH everything WAS going fine. Scept I was woken up by a distressed sound - one of the baby degus SOMEHOW escaped the cage. Despite my efforts at ensuring there was a barricade all around the edge it must have done some neat acrobatics and squeezing for this to happen! Unfortunately, the room that I keep the cages isn't the same room that my degus exercise as it's more like a small "studio" flat with lots of nooks and crannies for a tiny degu to hide. I tried to catch it - by putting my welly boots around and ushering it but no avail. In the meantime I have moved everyone back into the "thistle" cage which most definitely isn't big enough but I can't have babies loose Buying a new cage is out of the question currently - I have been out of work for seven weeks with a broken ankle and am skint. So until they are big enough it'll have to do. I CAN stick the cage in my on-suite bathroom and give them complete reign of that with the cage door open? 1. Mummy degu can also hear her baby and is dying to get out the cage. How long can the babies go without mummy for? My goal is to put her in the bottom half of her old cage with a ladder and let her roam free in the hope of getting her baby and bringing it back - or at least dumping it in the cage so I can put it back. (Pinata will keep the others warm) Or should I use Pinata in the hopes she will do the same?
p.s. while moving them I checked for myself (feeling more confident on sexing than EVER BEFORE NOW lol) and I have 2 brown girls and 2 "silver??/blue" boys! The lost degu idk yet EDIT: Mummy was calling to the baby who finally walked out of hidey spot just as I was typing this and I used my ninja reflexes to catch! Just to update: 3 girls (2brown/1blue) & 2 boys (both blue)!
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 16, 2015 17:31:04 GMT
They are putting you through the mill! Glad you got baby back, nice job with your ninja skills lol! Could you work out how she escaped and reinforce that spot, or is the smaller cage the only way forward?
I guess you could put the cage in the ensuite and allow them free roam in there, but you would need to be super super sure that there aren't any little holes into plumming places, like the back of the toilet or behind fascias and so on. Would you be able to open the room door without them escaping into the rest of the flat? Oh, and you need to keep the lid down on the toilet, people have lost degus that way before. Maybe it would be safer for them to just be a bit cramped for a little while. It depends how soon Pinata has her litter and when the babies are big enough to go back in the bigger cage without escaping.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 16, 2015 17:36:06 GMT
Sorry shoulda clarified - its a disused bathroom. There never has been a toilet there and its a walk in shower with a "posh" sink that is attached to the wall. It's just pure tiles all around with the single small drain in the floor which I'd cover. I'm concerned about them chewing the lino instead of their million toys but at the end of the day it's just lino! I think I'll give them supervised runs in there and try to burn off energy in the day so I can get some kip. The babies were running around the cage today it's cute seeing how active they are!
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 16, 2015 17:41:19 GMT
OK, that sounds easier to make safe. Supervised runs seems like a good way to judge if it's going to work and spot any pitfalls, and might be enough to keep Bandita and Pinata happy anyway. You could try cardboard over the lino, but that might just encourage them, it depends on the goos.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 17, 2015 3:46:07 GMT
Hiya - it's 4.30am here - since the girls have been separated Pinata has non-stop chewed the bars. I might as well not have a bed in here - when my room mate leaves at 6am I sleep in his bed and get up at 9am as usual. Honestly, I think the degus are cute (and I do love them) but this lack of sleep is disgusting. Her behavior is (understandably) horrendous. She's pregnant, stressed and wants to be with her mate. She is impossible to distract. To make things worse every time I open the door (only to this cage that I moved she, her sister and babies in) she makes a bolt for it. Currently I only have one wheel I'm having to share between the cages until Friday. I am trying to squeeze the wheel in and she launches herself out and lands on the laminate floor. Not the first time this week and defo no the last probably BUT I noticed that she is slightly lame now. I just had to remove the wheel because I'm not 100% as she keeps going into the nest. Sigh. Bandita on the other hand is being an angel of a mom and a degu - the more I watch her behaviour the more I'm certain that the one baby death was more a result of some sort of defect than aggression.
Having sleep deprived palpitations & the shakes on top of all this stress and now probably a vet bill... I am definitely starting to lose my rag. ALL BECAUSE of degus. FML. >.<
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 17, 2015 12:14:22 GMT
Oh dear, I hope you are OK and that things don't seem quite so bad in the daytime.
Is there anything you could arrange differently? Did you try the ladies in the bathroom and let Pinata have a bit more freedom? Could you put the dad out of sight so Pinata is less focussed on getting to him? Could you wrap around the levels on the big cage with a load of cardboard to baby proof it?
How does Pinata's leg look? Is everything in the right place and pointing the right way? Is she using it at all, does it seem to move correctly if she does use it? If everything is in the right place and she is using it a bit, then it's usually fair to wait a day or two and see if it improves by itself.
It is very likely there was something wrong with the baby that died, I know it seems a bit gruesome, but it's quite common to find a half eaten baby, it's generally thought they are trying to get rid of something that could attract predators or cause disease.
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Post by kalraii on Jun 21, 2015 4:07:43 GMT
HIYA the last few days have been FINE up until now. I'm TRULY AMAZED. One of the babies has taken to escaping this thistle cage! THREE TIMES. It's always the same blue girl. Luckily I've been around to catch her - but honestly I don't even know how she's doing it! The gaps are TINY TINY and of course she and the other babies are growing bigger. But I have another problem - she was loose for around an hour. I finally caught her as I laid lots of cardboard boxes around. Except when I put her in the cage THIS time she runs to the corner on one of the shelves and sits there, shivering. The adults have had a look but she just wont budge. I'm really concerned as I held her in my hands bit (she was cool) and on both occasions I put her in the nest, just runs back on to shiver on her shelf. I feel like I might have to intervene- unless she's hurt herself somehow internally??
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 21, 2015 7:10:04 GMT
If you haven't already done so, warm her up, either with a sock with rice in it, warmed in the microwave, or a hot water bottle, or something else. You could even tuck her in your shirt for a bit. I wonder if her time out scared her, as well as chilled her?
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Post by kalraii on Jun 21, 2015 13:30:57 GMT
I stayed up and after about 15mins mummy degu picked the baby up and took it into her nest. I think that's probably what was best for it so after waiting to see if it'd run out again and it didn't I went to bed. BUT RIGHT. ANOTHER DISASTER. Honestly, this is scarring me for life. My boyfriend and I did our normal morning "Degu count". All fine, everyone happy even the little blue. We go out for and hour and then we come back. I have a hammock in the cage at an appropriate level. It's an expensive £25 one and I chose it because it wasn't "fluffy" or have loose threads (I've had an incident like this similar in the past with my rat's leg). Well, f**k knows how. We come back an hour later and there is a degu hanging from the hammock with the smallest thread imaginable around it's neck. It's dead and mummy, clearly distressed is chewing at it. I feel like a horrible person. I'm taking the best precautions possible with what I have available. I never thought that the blue would fit through the gaps in this cage or that the million in one chance one of the degus chewed a thead so fine as to manage to get caught up in it and hang itself. Last night I put a towel tucked around the bottom of the cage (which is already chewed to bits). The adults HATE having ANYTHING around their cage. SIGH. I wasn't prepared for this, but I can't help but feel I'm just incredibly UNLUCKY right now.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 21, 2015 17:51:49 GMT
Yikes!! You are really having a storm of difficulties and calamities! Wish I could just step through my screen and sit down with you for a bit to help with things. Or at the very least to encourage you and lift your spirits. I am so sorry about the loss of another pup. My heart reaches out to you.
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