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Post by claire on Apr 22, 2015 22:32:07 GMT
ok thanx maybe I misread ill have another look, or it was a different site lol
Can you use fairy clothes washing gel to clean their cages or am I best ordering some sort of disinfectant while im there?
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Post by moletteuk on Apr 23, 2015 10:57:21 GMT
You can get the seeds from various places, you just need to make sure you get plenty of high calcium ones. Perhaps if you have an asian food shop near you, you could put a decent mix together yourself with the use of our nutrition charts. You can also buy seeds individually from other internet sources, like Amazon or Natco www.natco-online.com/. The postage is a bit steep and complicated at Ratrations, but it does make the whole seed thing easy and they will last for ages, I would suggest getting probably two or three times the quantity of the high calcium mix to the treat mix. For seed quantity it depends how much commercial food they get and how much forage and other things, if they are getting quite a lot of hard food, then try half a teaspoon of seeds each a day. For cleaning, you can use just a warm damp cloth, or purpose made pet safe disinfectant, or a white vinegar solution. Ask away with the questions, it's not a problem
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Post by claire on Apr 26, 2015 9:26:30 GMT
Well i have some good news, i have the first level in my cage and i am planning on finishing it by tuesday eve, will post pics up, my first food order has come through, couldnt resist some toys too lol, may have gone a bit big on the flying saucer lol. I popped into my local pet shop, not pets at home, had a chat with the lad there as i knew him anyway, hes pretty much happy to order anything i want in, suggested looking at the ratrations site he said he may be able to make the mix with some of the seeds he sells anyway, and he delivers!! All coming together now
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Post by claire on May 1, 2015 22:57:36 GMT
ok so cage all done gyazo.com/18adbbb8c0b29288f13697723a054b6f hope they like it I get them in the morning )
apparently they are 4 new babies they have in the shop
They look really nervous though, im hoping they will come home and just settle for a few days
Am I right im saying any JR products that state safe for all rodents are safe for degus because they have some really good combo packs at the mo on zooplus and I love to see if these little guys prefere dried herbs and forage more than pellets
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Post by deguconvert on May 2, 2015 5:14:21 GMT
WOW!! That looks amazing! Well done!! I love it! Can't wait to see pictures of it with the pups in.
So long as there is no dried fruit in the packs, they should be good. Several owners one here buy from Zooplus and they have favorites that they like to get. Hopefully they will share those with you.
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Post by claire on May 2, 2015 8:20:47 GMT
yeah it was zooplus I was looking at just not a pro on what herbs and grasses they can have yet, that's my next challenge lol. th one that made me question myself was the oatgrass or was it green oat grass? I know oats are bad for them with high sugar and only feed as a treat, but wasn't sure about the grass part of the plant. Thanx for reassuring me, just want to be able to feed lots of varety if they are fussy tim to wake up the bf and drag him down the shop
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Post by moletteuk on May 2, 2015 9:51:34 GMT
Oooh exciting, are you bringing them home today? Yes, oatgrass/ green oats are fine, it means the whole plant. I think all the JRF forage type products are safe.
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Post by claire on May 2, 2015 10:34:28 GMT
They are home! promptl went nuts made a mess tipped up the feed bowl then realised there were humans near and hid lol, give them a few days to settle in and ill get pics up:)
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Post by moletteuk on May 2, 2015 16:18:04 GMT
Brilliant
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Post by deguconvert on May 2, 2015 23:59:05 GMT
ROFL! That's funny! Must have been a lot of fun to watch them. Can't wait to see the pics!
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Post by claire on May 3, 2015 12:17:17 GMT
well first 24 hrs they seem to have settled in well, the fattest one does nothing but eat, run on the wheel and if your not feeding him I can feel him staring at me when im watching telly lol, this morning I tried some hand feedng, they soon got the hang of that, one got brave jumped onto my hand then made a break for freedom, made it to the floor, managed to corner him and catch him without stressing him out, didn't put him off he came back for more food and a round 2, he is clearly the trouble maker, all ate brekky with no fighting and all sleep in their house together still camera shy or my camera skills aren't good enough to catch them lol will get pics eventually. Just like to say a massive thanx for bearing with me, I think I have the hang of things now, just need to think of names to suit characters, so far I have Ronnie (the escape artist) Reggie (the fat one) the shy one and the other one lol Love this group your all so kind and patient:)
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Post by deguconvert on May 4, 2015 13:58:24 GMT
WOO HOO!! Congratulations on now having them home!! Sounds like you are doing very well, as are they. Going with an "R" theme? Rocky, Rupert, Rascal, Randy? Don't worry about the difficulty of getting shots of your boys, that is pretty common. There are a few that seem to love the camera and pose like you wouldn't believe, but that isn't the situation for most of us. LOL! "Kind of blurry" isn't new to us.
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Post by saddlers on May 4, 2015 14:09:24 GMT
Sounds like you have your hands full, and well done on the cage. Sounds like you have already identified the active trouble maker...there is always at least one, but dont be surprised if you have 4
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Post by claire on May 5, 2015 16:01:16 GMT
ok so this is the best I have managed so far meet.. Ronnie, my favourite, has escaped twice, I didn't think he would be brave enough to run up my arm and onto the outside of the cage lol! oopsy, bravest of them all. gyazo.com/c0e7bc6e3a102b98314e065b771e0c55
Reggie, he is the greediest of them all, he is either gong to be fat or he is going to be some kind of mutant cat sized degu lol, im putting it down to baby fat for now or maybe he is just big im not sure. gyazo.com/fb03d286f2346861a70d3129f38c5bc2
Basil, he may be the smallest but he is the bully! causes fights a lot, so far lots of noise and pushing no biting. gyazo.com/228f38ba66fbbc11fceac8742db48387
not sure on this one, my little neice is going to name him so probably poohead lol id like to call him coco, the most timid one but has this nice calm look in his eye, very sweet this one. gyazo.com/bd2936480fc4a5c19750210538a1b3ac
I do have 2 concerns, one they don't seem to be eating their hay a lot, is this because they have hard feed all the time, or am I best changing the hay, its just P@H hay at the moment.
Two I see them scratching a lot is this fairly normal, they have a sand bath in at all times, do you have to flea degus?? or use mite powder or anything like you do with cats and dogs?? kinda slipped my mind in the excitemet of getting them lol
got a good pic of Reggie the fat one, is this normal size for a 9-10wk old male degu? gyazo.com/dc57eb3780260f32bc232d4f56704a3f
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Post by deguconvert on May 5, 2015 22:30:15 GMT
Degus can be pretty uninterested when it comes to hay, however have a look at these . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15657/bought-herb-leaf-flower-mixes . . . these mixes are pretty popular with degus and owners alike. Still, give them hay, or try some of the hay cakes, or sweet meadow hay. Those might be of greater interest. Degus can get fleas or mites. If you can get a look through the fur, can you see any irritation? I know that might be a rather optimistic question, as they are so new to you. If you feel worried about the amount of scratching you are seeing, maybe take them to your vet. Reggie . . . degus can look rather like a furry tennis ball when in that position, so it is rather hard to really say that he looks fat or overly large. A photo from above him when he is walking about would perhaps better show his physique.
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Post by claire on May 6, 2015 9:52:40 GMT
ha yeah ok ill try to get that view, maybe when we have built the run id stand more chance of getting that angle, I may just be being over protective, the itching is probably normal, first time mum and all that lol.
I do want to feed them more dried stuff eventually, I am In the process of working out the calcium and rfat ratio in what I currently feed them so I have an idea of what oter things to feed them, the threads are really helpful for that, although no where says the fat percentage? any ideas on this?
the three things in working on are cacium phosphorus and fat, it gets very complicated but I think im getting there with it lol
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Post by moletteuk on May 6, 2015 10:40:20 GMT
It's lovely getting to know their characters Keep an eye on the scratching, look out for any particular places they are scratching, pink skin, fur loss, any insistent or irritated attitude to the scratching (they should be pretty casual about grooming, they would normally spend most time on it just before a nap). Try some different hays and forages, also you can try putting the hay in a different place in the cage and top it up often, put it somewhere they like to hang out. The only things with significant fat content are nuts and oil seeds. Unless your degus become overweight in adulthood, then the total fats in the odd nut and a gram or two each of oil seeds a day should not be a problem. If you can select a decent mix of commercial food, a good selection of forage and a nice balance of oil seeds, then these should all have close to the right calcium and phosphorus content, so after that it's just a case of not getting carried away with treats that upset the balance. Or you may find your commercial food is a bit low in calcium, in which case, you can add in extra high calcium seeds and some extra high calcium plants like alfalfa, dandelion, clover, plantain. The main thing that throws off the Ca P balance quickly is grains as they have lots more P than Ca. Forage either fresh or dried is really important and now is a good time of year to start as new growth is usually the most palatable to degus who haven't tried it before. Keep reading, keep experimenting, you'll get the hang of it Nutrition charts have content analysis and also commercial food chart should have everything you need to consider: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-chartsdeguworld.proboards.com/thread/17365/commercial-food-chartJust ask if you have any questions.
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Post by claire on May 6, 2015 11:03:32 GMT
Yeah those are the charts im working on, just learning what is what, am I right in thinking dried veg doesn't have oxaclic acid in them? I feed ratrations seed mix about 3g per goo per day so that balances the lack of calcium in the dried veg and herbs, they like fresh chives at the mo but if the fresh stuff may upset their tummies ill stick to dried stuff more, so far they have been fine, gave them one chive piece each and one spinach leaf between them, although I think Ronnie ate two chives lol having a field day on zooplus, loads of natural things to try out, stalks of seeds like millet, cactus and rose flowers ect, want to use that sort of thing to top up the feed,maybe one day when I understand it better move over to all natural stuff:) Glad to know im not doing anything majorly wrong so far
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Post by moletteuk on May 6, 2015 16:33:29 GMT
No, all that drying does is remove the water. Fragile compounds like vitamins might degrade, but minerals like oxalates will remain, carbs, fibre and fat etc will remain the same. Human type vegetables tend to be low on calcium, but a mix of herbs, leafy greens, wild type plants etc on average work out about right for calcium and phos, as long as you get a broad enough mix. Fresh forage is actually better than dried, all the nutrients should be easier to digest when they are already mixed with the natural water content, and the chewing wear effect on the teeth is exactly as nature intended. If you are concerned about new things and upset tummies, just introduce things gradually and not too much of any one thing. You should be spoiled for choice of hedgerow plants in Cornwall, take a look at this thread for easy things to find and pick deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17333/wild-plantOxalic acid increases with the age of the plant/leaves, so newly sprouted leaves of dock etc are fine, but older leaves that have been on the plant for 4 or 5 months would be a bit much. Much of the oxalates (oxalic acid) is calcium oxalate, which is why the plants with higher calcium content tend to also have high oxalate warnings, it's coming from the same compound. It is unclear how well degus can utilise this calcium, but we currently assume they deal with it quite well (some desert rodent species have particular bacteria in their guts that breaks it down).
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Post by claire on May 6, 2015 23:29:55 GMT
ahh ok I see, just the lists there don't have oxalic acid on the dried veg bit, so as long as they like it its better to keep with fresh stuff, so far they have had a try of the two fresh things ive given them with no problem. one thing they don't seem to enjoy is the crispy mix, I may switch that for something else if they don't grow to like it, its that or I just give them unlimited food and they pick out the bits they like lol, I give them the hard feed and it lasts 24 hrs, usually I little bit left in the morning, so I presume they are satisfied plus a few sunflower or pumpkin seeds as im doing bonding, plus I scatter a pinch of JF degu treat for them to forage which I will switch for something healthier for them. I suppose after only 5 dyas its hard to tell what they like, ill keep playing but thanx for clearing the acid thing up!
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