|
|
Post by fred on Jan 13, 2012 16:23:37 GMT
On a long walk yesterday I noticed how many plants are coming out early this year. If the frost over the next few days isn't going to be too severe, we'll before long be able to collect plants to feed directly or dry for later consumption. There are obvious advantages over the bought stuff: - Large leaves, stems and flowers are so much more interesting for our degus that the small bits and pieces in most products - It's completely free - It can be a lot of fun We will have to start building up knowledge here which plants are suitable for degus and which are to be avoided. On deguforum.de they have a plant identification thread ( www.degus-online.de/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34698&sid=5bff2b4e70865a1455ed6506ee30b34c ) and I would suggest that we try to build up something similar here. That depends on having a number of members going out there, collecting, photographing and presenting their collections here. Any volunteers willing to contribute to this? Any suggestions how best to organise this thread? One idea from deguforum.de which sadly doesn't seem possible in Scotland but perhaps in some degu hot spots in the South and the Midlands: Why not meet up in a small group and go on a plant collection walk together? |
|
|
|
Post by NightwishRaven999 on Jan 14, 2012 4:44:07 GMT
 I cannot believe this Fred ! Faith, let's pack our bags and move to the UK ;D ! Winter here is only just beginning ! This is a wonderful idea Fred. I too am very much looking forward to getting serious about the plant collecting. I only managed to get a taste of it before winter, but I cannot wait for spring to come up. You can count me in ! Dont expect anything from this end until atleast mid April though! There is nothing green before this time here. The ground is frozen in April and snowstorms are quite common.
|
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jan 14, 2012 7:06:01 GMT
I . . . guess . . . we could say winter is just starting, but truly from mid October on we are leafless, trees bare, grass a mix of brown, yellow, and green, and the weather can be anywhere from plus 15 C down to minus 24 C!! I was going to say that we have a period of time where we aren't really winter, certainly not summer, oftern cooler than autumn in many places . . . so if weather were a car, it would be stuck in neutral. But it's really more like a manual transmission being tortured by a new driver!! It lurches forward, whines, groans, stalls, shudders back to life, then suddenly terrifies the poor confused soul at the wheel and gears when they find themselves moving in reverse at a pace they didn't intend. This goes on for some time until, WHAMO!! Winter really kicks in with a will and the tranmission is no long in doubt as to what gear it should be in, or how long is must wait for a controlled stream of petrol to power it. It's full freeze ahead!
|
|
|
|
Post by winic1 on Jan 14, 2012 8:13:35 GMT
Ummm....yeah.....It is down to -15°C tonight, with a wind as well...(hey Canadians, how about taking your weather back?! It's blowing down on me...) Our trees don't come back until early May...wish I was where you are, or anywhere else that's not here, right now.
Anyway, it might be good to have some indication of source by continent, while a dandelion seems to be a dandelion everywhere, this is not true for all plants, for example what gets called a "marigold" can be any number of flowers, not only different species, but different genera (genus-es) or even different plant families. Maybe include common names with region/countries of use to help people out. Trees fall more distinctly by by regions/countries than smaller plants do, I noticed when I was asking about trees that are very common here, no one else seemed to have most of them in their regions.
For trees and shrubs, I would suggest grouping by similar families. For smaller plants, easiest for non-botanical people is by color of flower or growth habit (short and compact, tall and leafy) and leaf shape. Photos should really, eventually, include flowers when things finally come into bloom, as leaf shape can be misleading except for those with unique shapes (like oxalis or clovers) or definite smells (like the mints).
Maybe also a section, clearly marked on each item DO NOT FEED for those plants that it is known we should never give our goos. Maybe another for NOT KNOWN IF SAFE to put common plants that there isn't data on, just to warn people away until more info comes available. I am surrounded by all kinds of maple trees, yet I only ever see about 2 kinds listed, (that don't even grow in my region) with a warning against. If new to this idea, and surrounded by all these beautiful green leafy maples that I see no warning about, I might be tempted...
|
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 14, 2012 9:55:05 GMT
Well, in the UK I don't think we'll get going on a larger scale before mid March. I mainly wanted to float the idea of group walks early on because these require some planning as well as some particularly keen members to get the ball rolling.
Also, before we start specific threads, we need to be clear how to organise this. Winic1 has raised a number of important points. Our forum covers a much larger geographical area than the German deguforum, so we have to do things differently. It's not just different continents, but there will be major differences in the vegetation of Alberta and Florida, or Norway and Southern Spain. I think the suggestion of separate DO NOT FEED and NOT KNOWN IF SAFE sections (= threads?) is a very good one. It would be beneficial to have a couple of mods particularly interested so that individual posts can be quickly moved or duplicated where appropriate. Quite a bit to think about before we go out there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maravilla on Jan 14, 2012 13:55:10 GMT
We are far away from having a typical winter with snow and cold as well. In some willows you can already see catkins. Hopefully they will survive as nobody knows how this is going on. The only plants I could collect at the moment are grass and buckhorn, and daisies of course. And quite green blackberry leaves... Ouch! The other day I even saw some marigolds in full blossom... |
|
Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
|
Post by Tiiyn on Jan 15, 2012 11:36:22 GMT
One thing that I think would be useful, would be for moderators to keep the first (first two or three perhaps) updated, using edits... and then possibly even delete the replies. A thread with 5 pages of info /discussion is much more daunting then one or two POSTS in one thread.
(Or, perhaps a better idea would be a "Discussion" thread and a "Final ideas" thread (perhaps with only mods being able to post in the latter))
|
|
|
|
Post by davx on Jan 15, 2012 11:46:57 GMT
@dc & NWR Or big greenhouses for you  . |
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 15, 2012 13:06:34 GMT
One thing that I think would be useful, would be for moderators to keep the first (first two or three perhaps) updated, using edits... and then possibly even delete the replies. A thread with 5 pages of info /discussion is much more daunting then one or two POSTS in one thread. (Or, perhaps a better idea would be a "Discussion" thread and a "Final ideas" thread (perhaps with only mods being able to post in the latter)) You address something which could be a real problem, and is one of the reasons why I have started this thread so early. As much as I am pleased that the 50% natural nutrition thread has become such a success, it probably has grown too much to be digestible. I believe we are in a rather unusual position for a forum. In the German-speaking countries, there are comprehensive as well as reliable degu information sites and the forums can deal with detail / specific questions. We don't have such sites yet, and for some areas they seem not even feasible. For example, because of the already mentioned geographical differences, the feeding guide on which we are currently working, cannot be nearly as comprehensive as comparable information on the German sites. I believe that as a result, our forum here needs to be more of a general information site than what is usually found for similar pet forums. This may well need a higher degree of meddling in threads by our mods. Perhaps something for the mod board to consider in general? |
|
|
|
Post by davx on Jan 15, 2012 13:22:56 GMT
Indeed I think it is useful to group herbs and grasses in families and not only following the colours of their flowers. Why?
Well, it makes more sense because for related plants we can find many similarities, also in containing plant compounds (and potential risks or utility) and outlook of plant shape, leaves, flower structure etc.
In addition there are much more herbal plants than shrubs and trees making it difficult to sort only following the colour of the flowers. In addition the flowers are only visible for a season respectively 1-3 months for most of the flowering plants, others don't produce any flowers or produce some hard to derect for laymen.
Finally it is important to point out that the effort to derermine the scientific taxon, e. g. genus or species is vital for preventing missunderstandings. Also in some cases it isn't necessary to determine the precise species, because the family and a crude idea of the genus is enough to avoid toxic species.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maravilla on Jan 15, 2012 13:27:50 GMT
It is not easy to create a thread which deals with these problems. As Fred already mentioned, we have such a thread in the German deguforum. In fact, we have different threads: at least one for posting pictures and asking about the plants and the others (lots of work for the mods!!) where these pictures are collected and categorised (suitable, not suitable, doubtful). I use the thread to ask about plants I cannot find in the books I have at home or about plants where I don't know if they are suitable for degus. But the second one, the one with the pictures already determined, I rarely use as it is easier to have a look in the books than to scan several pages of pictures and compare "my plant" with the pictures there. I only use it to check if they is anything written about the suitability of a given plant.
|
|
|
|
Post by davx on Jan 15, 2012 13:38:16 GMT
My proposal, categories following the vegetation zones:
Boreal forest zone in the north
Broadleaved forest zone in the temperate Europe and N-America
Mediterranean zone in southern Europe and USA (California etc.)
Cold desert zone in America
Hot desert zone in America and Africa
Alpine zone of the Alps and Rocky Mountains etc.
Well we probably can neglect some of them and have to add others, as well as we have to distinguish the continents too.
|
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on Jan 15, 2012 16:04:00 GMT
Perhaps we could find some plant ID information on the web that we could link to? I think international plant ID is very ambitious for us!
Perhaps it might work quite nicely if we approach it from the opposite direction aswell- some of us who already have some experience post threads about what we have collected, where we found it, point out some ID features of what we found, eventually link it to times of year available, whether out goos enjoyed it. It seems like a nice way to start when we are mostly all just beginning with this.
|
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on Jan 15, 2012 16:14:43 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jan 15, 2012 20:26:05 GMT
I have to admit . . . I'm feeling a little like I'm at the bottom of a very deep diving pool, and looking up. I know NOTHING about identifying plants, from weeds, to low bush, med. bush, tall bush, tree, flowering, shape plants, mixed exposure plants, full sun, desert plants . . . the list goes on and on! I'm completely overwhelmed by this prospect.
On top of that, after they are identified . . . how do we determine if they are edible or not?
|
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 15, 2012 20:43:13 GMT
Don't worry DC, it sounds more complicated than it's going to be. In the first instance we will only be interested in a relatively small number of plants which are found frequently and in large numbers. Realistically I'd also expect this to be more of a UK thing in the first year. Once identified, one of the German members can look up davx' wiki to find out whether the plant is suitable for degus.
|
|
|
|
Post by davx on Jan 15, 2012 23:29:17 GMT
@dc
There are some plants you will definitely learn to identify, because so many other people learnt it too. Others, well I too have my best effort and it is in fact hard. But finally it is mainly a question of time you spend with identify plants, the longer you do it, the better your skills.
Mainly it's lore. In Germany (Degupedia/Deguforum) we have a look in reference literature or google the web for reliable sources. Often there are information about the purposes of a plant, how it is used. If we feel confident to try it out with our own animals, we start to collect our own experiences.
|
|
I cannot believe this Fred ! 
. 
