Last Few Questions

[Bexi87]

I'm picking the wood up tomorrow for my new cage and hope to build it over the weekend. I just have a few questions that I'm hoping to get some help with.

1. How many access points should I have on each full level? The CARA of my cage is 27,500cm and there are 2 full size shelves (150x50), two smaller shelves (50x50) and the base.

I was thinking two 10cm squares in opposite corners, but I just wanted to ask.

2. What kind of screws do I need? I will be screwing 12mm MDF into 15mm MDF.

3. What type of paint do I use? I can't for the life of me remember what I used last time

I can't wait to get this built, am so excited! ;D

[dylhendoog]

Can I just ask, are you actually building it out of wood or are just the selves wood? If you are building it out of wood its not such a good idea since they can chew out. Not sure I would suggest MDF either as that's made from the cuts of all kinds of wood, some of which may be toxic.

[Bexi87]

I've built one using MDF before and I'll be covering and lining all the shelves so chewing hopefully won't be an issue

[dylhendoog]

Ok, its just I was always told that completely metal cages with only wooden shelves was the best (metal base, mesh held with metal brackets) What are you lining the shelves with?

[Bexi87]

Kiln dried pine and covering them with tiles

There are quite a few of us that have wooden cages, NWR has a website that you may be interested in. If you look on his blog there is loads of info

[xcasper17x]

A quote from Emz on another thread that might help you

Jul 28, 2011 17:49:20 GMT emz said:

It'd be cheaper to use MDF for the walls and only line chewable surfaces with a safe-wood. This is perfectly safe to do and saves you money also.

[dylhendoog]

ok, but personally would never recommend wooden cages to anyone for a degu from my own past experiences.

what is nwr?

[Tiiyn]

NWR is out abreviation for the member NightwishRaven. His degu cage building site is octodondegus.weebly.com/

You will find alot of the members of this forum have built cages for their degus out of wood (myself included), and it is considered a safe and reasonable practice. One of the many benefits being it allows us to make much larger cages for them for the same price as much smaller metal ones (these metal ones are also usually harder to clean/keep clean, often more difficult to customise, etc). These are also very common in the European (German etc) Degu communities. NWR's website has ALOT of images of wooden cages, and there are still more on this forum too.

And Dingle, to get this topic back on track some, I used self-tapping screws on the advice of a friend, however, I don't know if this is the best option or not. (Smithomatic mentioned using bolts as an option in another thread as I recall, as he believed these to be more solid?). Shelf hole size wize, I again, am not sure. I made mine about 15cm x 15cm on each shelf, but, I made these based on looking at other members pictures and the like (and measuring it and deciding it looked okay to me)...

Hopefully some other more experienced members can add their input soon =)

[dylhendoog]

Ok I will look at his site. Sorry if I'm being unreasonable.

[fred]

dylhendoog
Unfortunately there are a number of so-called degu information sites which make false claims regarding the unsuitability of wooden cages and wood in cages. Nobody here will consider you unreasonable because you have been misinformed. We will only try to convince you with more accurate information as you will find on the octodondegus.weebly.com/ site.

[Tiiyn]

dylhendoog
I didn't mean to make you feel like I thought you were being unreasonable. I didn't feel like that at all (although, it is late, so I may have been less clear then I thought), I just wished to explain that we consider wooden cages perfectly acceptable. As fred said, there is a lot of incorrect information out there (which I too found before finding this forum).

[dylhendoog]

Well I got most of my information from degutopia, which I don't consider incorrect information If they are tried and tested to be suitable then that's fair enough.

[fred]

I am afraid but a lot of the Degutopia information is incorrect. For the example the toxic woods list is utter nonsense (sorry, no other way to describe it). Another example are their cage size recommendations which are in conflict with RSPCA animal welfare standards.

[dylhendoog]

Their information is cited. Which is why I tend to trust it since you then read the information from the citations. I'm not here to argue with anyone anyway but I trust the site.

[NightwishRaven999]

Dec 14, 2011 21:33:53 GMT Bexi87 said:

I'm picking the wood up tomorrow for my new cage and hope to build it over the weekend. I just have a few questions that I'm hoping to get some help with.

1. How many access points should I have on each full level? The CARA of my cage is 27,500cm and there are 2 full size shelves (150x50), two smaller shelves (50x50) and the base.

I was thinking two 10cm squares in opposite corners, but I just wanted to ask.

2. What kind of screws do I need? I will be screwing 12mm MDF into 15mm MDF.

3. What type of paint do I use? I can't for the life of me remember what I used last time

I can't wait to get this built, am so excited! ;D

Hi Bex ! So happy for you.
Your last cage looked really good, but I am sure this one will be even better.
Your CARA is really good !

Your plan to give one access hole to each level is perfect.

As for the screws to use for 12mm and 15mm sheets of wood, I would go with #4 screws (1 inch/2.5 cm in length). Go with flat head scews if possible.
This is not the first cage you build, so I am pretty sure you know this...but for others who are reading this, drilling the holes before putting in the screws is advisable...especially when working with thin wood.

As for the paint, I have no idea what to suggest.
I have thought of staining the outside of my own cage using pure tongue oil, but have never given thought to painting/staining the inside.


Tanyajk85 did paint the inside of her cage.
Hopefully she will be reading this and will be able to suggest a safe product.


I am excited for you as well ! ;D
Keep us up to date !



@ dylhendoog
The information cited on Degutopia is most often not even related to degus. If you verify the citations, you will notice most of the sources deal with other animals, such as mice and rats.
The toxic wood list on Degutopia is a good example of this. Many woods are classified as toxic (birch being among them). If you look into the citation that is given, you will find that it has nothing to do with degus. Mice have proven allergic to the dust emminating from birch wood, so this website choses to claim birch as being unsafe for degus.

Of course, it is good to have citations and sources to back claims.
But these claims are not relevant when the sources deal with other animal species. How can one claim something that is not founded and give citations that do not even support these claims ?

There is nothing wrong with placing your trust in a website.
But you will probably notice many things here are not in line with degutopia standards. The housing/caging standards here are very different and so are the recommendations related to diet and cage setup.

You will most likely come across information that contradicts what you have read there. One thing you must remember, the forum is an international community. Although much of the forum is UK based...we have members from all over Europe and North America.
The insight and experiences we collect here are from degu owners around the world.

As for housing degus in wooden enclosures, many have never heard of even thought of this. It is usually quiet an eye-opener for new members to see that the majority of the active members here house their degus in wooden enclosures
We encourage this housing method very actively.

You may even find yourself attracted by the concept of building a degu cage. It is a very rewarding experience...one that is highly addictive and contagious ;D

I was very sceptical when I first heard of this housing method.
All kinds of ideas pooped in my head, but I decided to ask questions and enquire about this. After four years of housing degus in the wooden enclosure, I would never go back to previous housing methods.

By the way, you are NOT being unreasonable.
Most of us felt the same way about DIY cages in the past.
Perhaps it would be good to mention, that this housing method has been tried and tested by our friends in Germany even before Degutopia came into existence.


There is a lot of food for thought here

[dylhendoog]

I understand
I wont be making a cage myself however. I have no where near the time or skill involved.

[xcasper17x]

Is hot glue or very stong non-toxic glue on to use instead on screws and nails ..etc? Because if they chew through the wood and get to a nail or screw then that is certainly gonna hurt them. Just asking for when i make a new cage

[NightwishRaven999]

Dec 15, 2011 1:40:14 GMT xcasper17x said:

Is hot glue or very stong non-toxic glue on to use instead on screws and nails ..etc? Because if they chew through the wood and get to a nail or screw then that is certainly gonna hurt them. Just asking for when i make a new cage

If you have questions about building a cage, I would suggest you create a seperate topic. This way you could post all of your questions in the same topic.

[malteser60]

I just wanted to point something out quickly with the citations on degutopia. I've had a very good look through all the citations and I found quiet a few inconsistencies. For example, there are citations (or links really) to graphs with no suorce of where the graph information came from. With regards to the toxic wood list some citations conflict each other. For example, degutopia considers willow to be a toxic wood. However, according to one of the citations used by degutopia (www.chincare.com) willow is not toxic. For me it's these contradictions that made me question degutopia.

Anyhow, enough going off topic. I'm going to moderate myself and get back on topic!
Dingle, i used self-taping wood screws and pre-drilled the holes. I'm not painting or doing anything to the inside but eventually I'll paint, or cover in some way, the outside part of the cage.

[winic1]

I can't give you the sources I found it on, but when previously looking up hot glue for a hamster project, I came across enough information indicating it is probably toxic that I decided no way. Remember also reading fumes are toxic (to people even if they get enough). So unless you or someone else can verify that a hot glue is known to be safe, I'd probably stay away.