Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 13, 2011 21:14:29 GMT
Hello there,
I'm Tiiyn (or, Amanda to be specific, but I find my real name sometimes causes more confusion). I've been coming across the forum a lot in the last few weeks (while doing researched) and decided I should finally properly join - introduce myself, and have a proper chat.
I'm currently not a Degu owner, but, I am at the "seriously considering it stage", having been considering it for a few months now -- but resisting the impulse to rush into anything. I finally made the decision last week, and have since ordered a cage, and started gathering bits and pieces together to get things ready for them.
I only have one query right now, and basically I'm wondering if anyone could advise me of having any experience with the bedding "Allpet softwood pet bedding"? It was created as an equine bedding I believe, and is advertised as "100% natural, made from sustainable untreated wood." It doesn't however specify what kind of wood it is however, and while it is advertised as suitable for Degus, I wanted to see if anyone here could verify that for me. (I got a good deal at a horse show today, and got half a bin liner free, so I figured if it's no good, it's no good... but, if it's any good - then great).
Anyway, lovely to meet everyone, and I look forward to lots of Degu related chatting! (Any and all comments/suggestions/tips welcome!)
Tiiyn
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 13, 2011 22:25:58 GMT
Hi Smux,
Thank you for your reply. In regards to the bedding, it's being advertised as "virtually dust free", and having just picked up and dropped some as suggested - I couldn't see any loose dust.
In hindsight, yes, I've been looking at the adoptions forum -- and am actually going to have another look now. I admit, I have fallen into the Pets at Home cage size trap of thinking 60 x 92 x 47cm is a reasonable size. As such, the one ordered is somewhat smaller then what I am now thinking I should actually have (specifically, it is 71.5cm x 43cm, and 101cm tall approximately). It is my intention for them to be out of the cage for a large portion of the day (I work about 5 hours a day, however this is spaced out and I'm rarely out for more then 2-3 hours at a time), however... yes... I have been considering receiving the cage and then returning it/selling it. (I'm also keeping an eye out for potential wardrobes for a DIY-project).
And sadly, I'm in Northamptonshire. Although, I have a father in London who would (I'm sure) love a visit, so, if I can get a suitable cage and stuff sorted, I might be able to help you out / have you help me out.
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Post by fred on Nov 13, 2011 23:09:39 GMT
Hi there and welcome to the forum! I hope you will find a lot of helpful information here. Regarding the cage you ordered, it is unfortunately far too small. Our recommendation is that the cage should normally be at least 100cm long and 50cm wide. It is great that you want to let your future degus out of their cage but that should be a bonus. If at all possible, I would try to return / exchange the cage.
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 13, 2011 23:11:44 GMT
Heya,
I have just googled the Critter 3, and that does indeed look to be the cage I've ordered (I've also ordered some wooden shelves to try and replace some of the wire levels/shelves with). I'm just having another look around to see if I can find any large cages (although, most seem to be over my budget). Edit: Thank you Fred for your input, I will keep looking.
And absolutely, I'll be sure to give you warning -- I'll have to work around my days off/when dad is around, so I'll probably have a weeks notice I'd think. And, I forget where he is exactly (south west london, somewhere, although that doesn't narrow it down loads)... if/when things are sorted I'll let you know!
And thank you. I had planned to give them a fair few days to get used to the cage/new home before letting them out, and then doing the letting out gradually. A DIY run is on my "to make" list, however I hadn't thought of the lying down approach -- so I will be sure to start there. =)
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Post by amie on Nov 13, 2011 23:30:31 GMT
Welcome to the forum!
I agree that a critter 3 cage is in no way suitable for a degu home. It just doesn't have the running lengh. You might be able to get away with it for a couple of months while the degus are still young, but my thoughts on the matter of that cage are that I'd want to join 3 of them together (side by side) to make an acceptable home for 2 - 3 degus.
Lengh is far more important than height for degus. They love to run!
You can get some really stunning and more suitable cages for a little more (£20 or so more) on ebay which are well worth it. I find critter 3s to be quite a rip off. I was looking at one of them when I got my first degus and it just seemed.... small!
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 13, 2011 23:38:14 GMT
Hiya Amie,
Thank you for the welcome. And, I've been trailing through ebay all week, but no luck on the cages front.
I shall, however, keep looking.
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Post by amie on Nov 13, 2011 23:40:10 GMT
You could always try second hand? I've bought some awesome second hand cages before for next to nothing  Good luck with your new degus! Sounds like they're going to a great home where they'll be really loved  |
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 13, 2011 23:44:53 GMT
Thanks, I really do want to be as prepared as possible for them -- I'd rather wait, then rush into something and end up regretting it two weeks later when it's far more difficult to change.
And yeah, been keeping an eye out for second hand ones too... not seen any suitable size/budget so far -- but I'll keep watching. =)
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Post by NightwishRaven999 on Nov 14, 2011 1:24:56 GMT
Fred's recommendations are very sound and proper. The dimensions of the critter3 cage as stated above are 70x42x100 cm. The fact that the cage height stands at 100 cm does nothing to change that the cage base is too small. The cage base is far too small to be suitable, and the 100 centimeter height is not a bonus...it is a minimum for cages with bases that are larger than the one in question ! The cage adds up to a total of less than 9,000 sq.cm The wheel is not there to replace actual running space...it is merely a bonus that should be available to the degus no matter how large the cage is. Even with time out of the cage everyday, our pets still spend over 95% of their lives in the cage. We have come a long way this past year, especially in the matter or housing standards. We understand Tiiyn has already ordered the critter 3 cage...that is why we offer the suggestions of sending it back and finding something larger. @ Tiiyn Welcome to the forum We are really glad to hear you are preparing in advance. You are doing well by trying to find a suitable cage before thinking of finding degus. Many members here have experience with joining metal cages together to create suitable degu habitats. Amie has also had the idea or turning her tall cages on their sides providing her degus with a much larger horizontal running space. You will find lots of food for thought in our boards. Keep us updated and again, welcome ! |
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Post by NightwishRaven999 on Nov 14, 2011 3:21:16 GMT
Just to confirm, NWR...do you know 3-tier means it has three floors? That is why I pointed out the cage only offers a total of less than 9,000 sq.cms. 70x42=2940 sq.cms x 3 = 8820 sq.cms. There is nothing to debate here. If you are comfortable housing your degus in this cage, it is your right to do so. However, you will find most of us are not comfortable recommending a cage of this size. Most of us have housed degus in cages of various sizes, so our recommendations are based on personal experiences as well. You have voiced your opinion...so has Fred, Amie and myself. Tiiyn will take our posts into account and make a decision. As for "the larger the better" you are correct. We have always enforced this rule. But as a forum, we have come to agree that a clear line needs to be drawn between what is suitable and what is unsuitable. We promote certain standards based on collective experience and observations as well as standards set by the RSPCA. We have all come a long way, there is no room left for questioning the validity of increasing the standards we promote. There is no going back to promoting, encouraging or excusing meager caging standards. A line needs to be drawn somewhere and we have all come to agree, some cages must be labeled as unsuitable. Smux, if you wish to voice your thoughts on the matter of the caging standards we promote here, I suggest you do so on a seperate topic. We have already strayed far enough from the matter at hand. We have each said our piece, there is little more to say on the subject. Other members will voice their thoughts and opinions here. |
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Post by amie on Nov 14, 2011 3:32:23 GMT
I have recently had to house two of my degus in a cage that is 80cmL, 96H, 50D due to the back panel on their cage breaking. This is temporary, and they do not seem happy in there at all. It has been customised to have three levels, but it still doesn't offer enough free running space for two degus. They have been in there for a couple of weeks while I'm getting the money together for a piece of wood to replace the back panel in their cage.
My point here is that, I've seen a real difference in their behaviour from having more space, to have less. They are a lot less active in the smaller cage and when they are active, they're destroying things much more than normal.
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Post by malteser60 on Nov 14, 2011 12:29:45 GMT
Hi Tiiyn, big welcome to the forum and so glad you joined us! The more the merrier And so glad you decided to adopt some degus, they will capture your heart, they're lovely lovely little creatures. You do need patience at first, and a bit of dedication but I'm sure that in time they will soon be all tamed and running all over you, as well as ruling the roost (so to speak)! I've got mine trained so that they'll happily sit on my shoulder as I go about doing housework, and will come to me when I call them (most of the time!). Unfortunately you've also stumbled upon one of the most heated debates we have on cage size, and I hope our 'debating' in this thread hasn't put you off both degus and our forum. We all want what's best for our goos after all ;D So, cage sizes. As all have said the bigger the better! Undoubtedly! You will notice once you have the degus that they are very very active (they run about 8 miles a night after all in the wild) and that any cage is too small! But, you have to have some sort of limit. NightwishRaven has outlined our minimum recommendations for a cage size, however we are also aware that some people may have space issues and have to have a cage base smaller than the 50cm x 100cm. If that is the case then we will be more than happy to give suggestions as to how to enhance such a cage (generally they'll be tall instead of long). I'm in that boat right now in that I have a tall cage but I'm making my own DIY wooden cage that will be much bigger. However, if you have the space, then go for the bigger cage. Seeing as you just ordered the Critter 3 cage if you can get a refund then I would strongly recommend to do so. That way you won't loose out money wise when it comes to upgrading the cage size. If you don't have the degus yet why don't you build the wooden cage straight away? It won't cost you a huge amount more than the critter 3 cage anyhow. And it will definitely be cheaper than buying the equivalent sized wire cage. If you can't get a refund the critter 3 cage will do as a stop-gap but you soon will be wanting a bigger cage for them. I also have one more aspect to point out that got missed in this thread, and that is type of wood for bedding. I'm sorry to say but smux has missinformed you with regards to this aspect. The Allpet Softwood Pet Bedding is definitely good for the degus. All softwood is good (pine being one of them) as long as it has been kiln dried, which bedding usually is (otherwise it clumps together and is all gunky from the resin if it wasn't). However not all woods are good for degus!! We do have a sticky thread in the feeding and cage sections about safe and unsafe wood. So always check the bedding carefully. Most bedding, however, tends to be safe, you just need to make sure it's dust extracted. Do you own horses? Cause if you do alternative beddings for the degus are megazorb (I wasn't too keen on it but it is safe) and finacard. Phew, I think I'll stop writing for now. Please, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask us! |
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 14, 2011 12:44:29 GMT
Lots to reply to here, lol, so I'm going to do a lot of quotes. You do need patience at first, and a bit of dedication but I'm sure that in time they will soon be all tamed and running all over you, as well as ruling the roost (so to speak)! Patience is, fortunately, something I don't have a problem with. I'm used to things taking time (we adopted a semi-feral cat about a year ago, and it took her three weeks to even come out from under my bed if I was in the room with her... edit. I feel I should add, the cat lives with my mum now, and I no longer do - so no cat/degu meeting worries!) Hey, thanks for the welcome - and, don't worry, the cage discussion hasn't put me off... I was having doubts about the cage size, and I guess, I'm glad people are confirming things... I have emailed the company selling the cage asking them if they've dispatched it yet, and if they haven't, if they will be willing to cancel the order and refund me... I just need to wait and see what they come back with. Size, for me, ISN'T an issue, so that being the case... I would rather get a suitable cage now, then need to change it later... I am actually looking into this option now, seeing what wood I can find for what price and such. Working out how I could make it, etc. (I've also put out a facebook appeal for old wardrobes/etc incase anyone I know has an old one they don't want). Right now I'm looking at the one I have and going "I really really want to play with that..." but, it isn't technically mine to adapt, lol. Thank you for confirming that too. I was aware Pine was good, and have been looking at the other safewoods, but I wasn't sure if that extended to all softwood or not (I admit, my knowledge of what is a softwood isn't complete), so I'm glad to have it confirmed. Thank you for those two suggestions too, and right now I don't own any horses - but I do work with them, and I will be loaning a horse shortly. |
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Tiiyn
Foraging Degu
Posts: 103
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Post by Tiiyn on Nov 14, 2011 13:48:29 GMT
Small update from my end, the seller has gotten back to me about the cage and they are quite happy to cancel the order (it hadn't been dispatched), and have already processed the refund for me. So =D
(I'm seriously looking at the DIY route now... So I'll start reading up on all the threads I can find and such tonight =))
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Post by fred on Nov 14, 2011 13:53:42 GMT
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Post by Maravilla on Nov 14, 2011 15:38:54 GMT
Hi Tiiyn, welcome to the forum as well from my part. I am happy you get yourself informed before adopting degus. Doing it you can avoid some troubles and problems. The responsibility we have for these small animals is just too big and they just don't deserve being treated bad just because of ignorance or lack of knowledge. Nobody is perfect, but there are a couple of things one should know before adopting them. About the kind of bedding I cannot say anything as I don't know these companies. You can also use straw in some parts to keep them entertained. About cage building... smux already posted the link of one of the cages my husband and I built for one of our groups (Thanks, smux!). It is length 175cm, width 60 cm and height 130cm and we use it for 3 degus. More than 4 I wouldn't put inside. We don't have very young goos, the youngest are about 2,5 years old, and one is still kind of hyperactive. But young goos can be much more active than older ones, so the argument of using a smaller cage for younger goos doesn't work actually. The younger a goo, the more running space and possibilities of dissipating an excess of energy is necessary. Another thing a degu owner should never forget is the need of different things in the cage to make it interesting for the little ones. All these things (a house or two, a running wheel, a sand bath etc.) need space... and there has to be enough free space to run. Degus are ground living animals. Unfortunately, you can often find the information of climbing etc. Just forget it. Proving some smaller climbing options is enough. Degus aren't squirrels. In the Show us your cage section you can find a couple of nice, DIY cages (especially on the very last pages). Most important things: a surface of at least 100x50 cm; it just cannot be too big!!!; and a couple of full floors, not just small ones. NightwishRaven999 put lots of interesting and important things to know about degus, cage building and nutrition on his website, with lots of nice and really convincing pictures which speak for themselves. About providing a playpen or let them run free I don't have personal experiences. 4 degu groups of quite shy individuals and 2 cats ( it works perfectly!!) make this impossible. But as already pointed out, such things should be always an extra and cannot substitute a reasonable cage size. It would be different with a permanent playpen the degus can use whenever they want to use it. But normally, only temporary playpens can be provided. This means, that the degus are in the cage most of the day. I notice clear activity patterns within my groups. So, what, if I provide this playpen when they are less active, sleeping, relaxing? They can don't use it. Some people also noticed unwanted behaviour in their goos which in some cases can be related with the desire of going to the playpen/ running free = using their territory. If you have questions about any topic, just don't hesitate to ask them. Here are a couple of people willing to help where they can help and doing their very best to do so. |
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Post by Bexi87 on Nov 14, 2011 20:08:54 GMT
Hi Tiiyn, Welcome to the world of degus! Your life will never be the same again once you welcome these gorgeous little monsters into it! When I brought my first pair home I bought this cage (http://www.theonlinepetstore.co.uk/prod_show.asp?prodid=648&ref=froogle) but quickly realised that it wasn't the best. It was difficult to clean and meant the girls could flick poo/bedding everywhere. Just before I got my next 3 babies (also girls) I decided I wanted to build a DIY cage. I had no experience of woodwork but I managed to build a decent sized cage (90cm wide, 60cm deep & 150cm tall). The gang have lived in this for 12 months and I am in the process of building a bigger, better goo mansion. I would really recommend, like the others, building a cage because in the long run you will save money on bedding etc. In terms of bedding, I use wood shavings from PaH and my guys love digging and burrowing in it. As it has been mentioned, if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. We all have questions on a near daily basis, even those of us that have had over 12 months goo ownership, so no question is silly! I hope this helps a bit with your decisions |
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Post by nuttz on Nov 16, 2011 8:51:15 GMT
a BIG welcome to the forum from me,tiiyn! ;D it is great to see you have been and are continuing to research degus before getting them, it really does help preparing for them before they arrive, (unlike myself who believed i had brought chipmunks, but that another story...lol). you will find heaps of useful information here on this forum, also, nightwishraven has put together a fantastic beginners guide that not only beginners can take advantage of but ALL degu owners!!! here is the link:- octodondegus.weebly.com/ten-steps-to-keeping-happier-and-healthier-degus.htmlim am so happy that you were able to get a refund for the critter cage you had ordered, thats a huge relief as im sure by now you have realized that the cage in question would be considered too small.. when you eventually do get your degus i am all too sure that you will fall in love with their quirky little personalities and you too will realize, bigger is better...!! unfortunately, some of us have very limited room and therefore opt for the tall standing type of cages, they can sometimes be adapted to work but, reality is that degus are ground animals and dont do very well are great heights, they can be sometimes clumsy and a slight fall can sometimes be fatal. degus love to run, sometimes at great speed...lol there really isnt much to compromise on that the fact is they need length rather than height! currently many of us here are also planning their next big build, (some like to call it the cage bug...lol) others just want to provide as much room for their little furries as possible. this is why it is so important you get it right from the beginning as im sure lots of us have been disappointed with their first cages?! i am currently at stage 1 of my 2nd cage project, my new cage dimensions are 200cm x 50cms and 96cms high.. with-in the cage there will be 2 full 200x50cm levels, 1 100x50cm level and lots of room for other ledges etc.. i have also been thinking of adding a digging pit at some point also! i have seen the plan for your cage, it really looks great, i am looking forward to seeing the end result, i am sure you wont be disappointed, neither will your future goos......!!! nuttz x |
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- otherwise you would have found this information in a prominent place: 
