Best Degu Cages

[degukid]

Hi,

I'm really interested in some of the comments regarding cages. I have done a lot of research owning four of the lovable rogues and have tried most cages.

If you are thinking about buying a cage for a degu these two really are two of the most reasonably priced out there suitable for these lovely creatures:

Montana Vivario 60/80

These glass fronted enclosures are basically a steel vivarium with roof ventilation available in two sizes with optional wood kits and stand. They have deep trays which you can fill with litter or if you're feeling rather flush with bathing sand to re-create their natural environment.

These enclosures are ideal for those who don't like mess as degu's do like to flick stuff everywhere!

Best prices i found:

www.elitepet.co.uk/montana-vivario-60-rodent-habitat-548-p.asp

www.elitepet.co.uk/montana-vivario-80-rodent-habitat-543-p.asp

Sky Xtrail

Secondly the Sky Xtrail, a much larger cage, again all steel so nothing to chew except what you add to the cage, multi level with ladders and great value for money ideal for 2-6 Degu's easily!

www.elitepet.co.uk/sky-xtrail-two-storey-cage-99-p.asp

Hope that helps

[fred]

This sounds very much like an ad for elitepet The Montana Vivario are far too small and therefore totally unsuitable for degus.

[davx]

Hi,

look at the dimensions of the cages. The first two are perhaps suitable for ants keeping, but they are even too small for other small mammals like (exotic) mice. And the third one is also hardly suitable for degus: 150 cm should be the length and not the height of the cage, degus aren't big climbers, they are ground dwelling mammals. For 6 degus this cage offers hardly space for the degus avoiding the others if one of the degus is stressed.

[deguconvert]

I agree, Fred, sounds very much like plug for Elite-pet. However, as pointed out by Fred and Davx, these cages are way to small for the health and lifestyle needs of the degu species. They are community animals (as in colony groups) that claim large areas of ground to be their territory in the wild. This characteristic is not lost as a result of captivity. Their bodies and minds remain geared for extensive ground coverage and speedy exits if a predator is approaching. The first two cages are not suitable to provide the space needed to house a single degu let alone the 2-3 (and more) degus that should be kept together. There is no space to truly move about at the speeds and fairly constant rate that they need to be happy and healthy. Although I like the appearance of the cages, their size and overall setup is insufficient to meet the needs of degus. As to the Skytrail . . . it is not completely objectionable. There are members here that use it, and I know they find it a fairly good cage for their needs. But . . . I think in ways it falls under the following.

This forum is exploring what excellent housing for degus looks like, particularly in the direction of DYI cages. We completely acknowledge that many owners may be limited to adequate cages, due to finances, space restrictions, and other limitations that simply come with life. This is sometimes just the way it is. But we have begun to expand our view of what can be done to improve cages of all kind, from changing the levels/or adding levels, adding and joining a second cage to the first, sometimes reducing the amount of "stuff" in the cage to open up areas for running, and so forth. With kind and gentle encouragement, we are helping each other to grow in our degu keeping skills.

[NightwishRaven999]

Sept 14, 2011 23:42:05 GMT deguconvert said:

This forum is exploring what excellent housing for degus looks like, particularly in the direction of DYI cages. We completely acknowledge that many owners may be limited to adequate cages, due to finances, space restrictions, and other limitations that simply come with life. This is sometimes just the way it is. But we have begun to expand our view of what can be done to improve cages of all kind, from changing the levels/or adding levels, adding and joining a second cage to the first, sometimes reducing the amount of "stuff" in the cage to open up areas for running, and so forth. With kind and gentle encouragement, we are helping each other to grow in our degu keeping skills.

Well said Faith ! I agree with everything Fred, David and Faith have said.

[amie]

What you all saying? I'm totally getting my degus one of those first cages. They seem so ROOMY! My boys will love me for one of those

[fred]

I need to say something in defence of the Sky Xtrail cage here. While the general advice is the larger the better and the longer the better, we must be realistic what wire cages are available. A lot of these have a length in the range of 90 to 100 cm. We discussed this here recently and said that we recommend a minimum length of 100 cm but that slightly less is acceptable provided that the cage offers enough running space. From previous discussions with him, I am sure that David agrees with this and I suspect that he was just as irritated about this annoying plug which suggested that the cage was ”ideal” for up to 6 degus “easily”. Which it is clearly not.

I would say that, depending on how the Sky Xtrail is fitted inside, it is suitable for 3-4 degus. If one slightly “cheats” David's octodon.ch calculator by adding 7 cm to the length and subtracting it from the depth, the cage is suitable for up to 4 degus.

[NightwishRaven999]

I have just checked the dimensions of the Sky Xtrail cage and it is quite large.
Of course as mentioned, it is nowhere near ideal for 6 degus, but I can well see a trio of degus living in here.

This is quite big, as far as metal cages come and go.

[deguconvert]

Perhaps I was still a little harsh in how I described the Skytrail. I do think that as it compares to many, many other metal cages out there, it is one of the better ones you can get! However, I do think that it can still be improved upon by the owner by the manner in which it is outfitted. That is what I was trying to say with this "But . . . I think in ways it falls under the following." And then the following short paragraph beneath . . . I guess I didn't sink that ball, did I? Sorry.

[davx]

Well, the first post looks like an ad, as Fred already mentioned and the first two cages are IMHO poor. Sky Xtrail seems to be better and the "ground area" (how would you name this correctly?) comes nearly to that was in the german deguforum is recommended as minimum.
But the idea of such a small cage (I compare to what is possible building a proper DIY-cage and not what is sold in petshops) is to enlarge it with additional floors and here I see a problem, that I think most of the owners don't expand the area in the cage with such additional floors.

[davx]

I have to add something:

This forum is exploring what excellent housing for degus looks like, particularly in the direction of DYI cages. We completely acknowledge that many owners may be limited to adequate cages, due to finances, space restrictions, and other limitations that simply come with life. This is sometimes just the way it is.

That is an important point... we all have some constraints to deal with. Space is such one, but not always the space itself is the problem. I think also important is the awareness for the needs of our degus. I know from a friend who keeps rats in a small cage like one of the first two cages and rats need similar spacious cages as degus. He has chosen what the pet shop sold and what guide books recommended. The end of the story is, place was enough there in the living room for a big cage, but the wrong tips and the wrong equipment in the pet stores led to a wrong decision... This is a big problem and finally it is much easier to change one's mind before buying. My friend let the rats run in the living room instead, but it doesn't replace a more spacious cage.
Therefore I think it is important to encourage the people thinking about what is sold in pet shops. On the other hand it is also important to help even when a given cage is not so big, perhaps in our opinion too small. Optimising the setting often brings some improvements and finally helps the degus.

In short, to find the balance between such constraints and our idea of DIY cages is not easy. I think it is important to talk about.

[deguconvert]

There have been fairly extensive discussions on the forum here about the conflict between the information that is put out there by pet stores and other websites, and the housing "revolution" that we are in the midst of ourselves. The discussion would sometimes become rather heated, as members who had followed the advise given them were faced with the challenge and opinions of other members that have already moved into much larger cages and DYI projects. It is a difficult place and really what we concluded is, we can't force people to change their minds about housing. We can do our best to put forth the most encouraging and accurate information we have, and when questions are asked, or discussions arise, then encourage modifications that improve the current cage they own. If they are open to the idea, discuss DYI cages and the changes they bring about for both the degus and their owners. So, in short, we are taking the path of educators and encouragers with a view to a long range, large gains improvement in domesticated degu welfare.

[malteser60]

Well said deguconvert. Degu owners want the best for their degus (on the whole) but may be constrained by space or money. The latter, especially, can be a crippling factor as lack of money can come about through a loss of a job, pay freezes, unexpected bills like a medical bill, and so on.

However, on the flip side, there has to be a certain standard that degus need to live in. And that's the debate, what's the minimum standard. Some we can definitely rule out, and to use this post as an example those first two cages are a clear-cut no-no. The other cage however, well, I wouldn't say it's suitable for 6 degus, but for 2 or 3, and with a few modifications, would be good.

My cage is a classic example. I have a very tall and fairly narrow cage, which I know is not ideal at all for degus as running space. I have already spoken with my boyfriend and we are planning to build them a bigger cage, but I have no idea where in the house I can put it?!? This cage fits perfectly, but I'm at a loss as to where to put the bigger cage. I don't want to put them in the spare room as I rarely go in there and I love having them in the living room where we spend most of our time - the living room, dining room, basically the whole bottom floor except the kitchen and bathroom is an open space. And that's the issue. One part of the wall is covered with a fireplace, another wall with a radiator and window, another wall with radiator and back door/kitchen door, and under the stairs is closed off as a cupboard. Not too mention a 3-piece sofa suite that is one chair too many for the space we have but if we get rid of it my boyfriend's mum will have a fit!

However whilst I solve this dilemma I have modified the cage so it has the illusion of more running space. There are two main levels and all the way round are ledges forming an every-increasing circle upwards, with the gaps between ledges not that big. That way for the degus to get to the top they have to run round and up - not climb (although they do take shortcuts sometimes and climb), or go up ramps or tubes. So for now I feel that is a good compromise.

Right, back to work for me!

[Kat]

That layout sounds very interesting. Do you have any pics?

Kat
X

[fred]

This has been quite an emotive issue in several previous discussions and I would like to add some more pragmatic considerations of my own.

There are some cages where the vast majority of members here will agree that they are completely unsuitable for keeping degus. These include the Montana Vivario shamelessly plugged in the first post of this thread, the gerbilarium recently suggested by P@H as a possible degu cage, as well as the John Hopewell cages with an area of L 61 cm x D 46 cm. I believe there is now also a consensus here to include the P@H Thickets House cage in that we find it unsuitable to keep adult degus permanently in a single of these cages.

I would suggest that new degu owners who come here for advice need to be told “we are very sorrry you have been misled by commercial interest and/or degutopia but your cage is not suitable for the long-term housing of degus. If you are a responsible pet owner interested in the welfare of the animals in your care, you must take action to improve their housing”. Unfortunately, there isn't really a way to sweeten the pill. If a new member doesn't want to hear this truth, there is little we can do, but I would expect this to be the rare exception.

For all others, there are a number of relative quick and cheap fixes we can recommend. The easiest will often be a second hand Thickets cage which can be had for £30-40. As has been said several times before, putting one of these cages on top of another already makes a fundamental difference. Those who have one of the small area Hopewell cages could join it to a Thickets cage which straight away gives a length of 150 cm at floor level.

Malteser has rightly mentioned financial constraints which can indeed by crippling, in particular under current conditions. However, here I would say the following. For a responsible pet owner interested in the welfare of the animals in his/her care, to somehow make the savings for the £30-40 fix over a couple of months must be manageable. Personally I wouldn't have any sympathy for anyone refusing to do so.


At the other end, let's have a look at available cages (and sometimes DIY may not be an option for one reason or another) whose length exceeds the minimum length of 100cm suggested by many. There are few wire cages available with a length of 100 cm plus, and it will be difficult to find a new one at less than £300. If one wants to go for 120 cm plus it will become almost impossible and prohibitively expensive. Converting a vivarium or a rabbit hutch are alternatives but if one can't find a suitable second hand one, the costs will likely be £250 plus.


Inbetween there are a number of models of wire cages with a length between 90 cm and 100 cm that can accommodate three or four full levels. Now, are we going to say to these members your cage is not suitable because it is missing a few centimetres in length from what is by any means an arbitrary value? Surely not!

As has already been pointed out by others in this thread, what is most important is how the cage is fitted out inside. I have seen pictures of cages with a length of 80 cm that I found much more suitable for degus than others with a length of 120 cm. I haven't seen a wire cage with doesn't need improvements inside and I suggest that as a community we should aim to help new degu owners to optimise the available space. It is right to stress that degus are ground living animals and primarily not climbers. However, in the wild they are neither running in extended straight lines nor on flat surfaces. With a clever fitting out of our cages we can do a lot to improve the running possibilities of our degus. For example, replacing the wire mesh ramps in the Sky Xtrail with longer wooden ones will already make a big difference. It is also important to place nest box, wheel, food bowl and toys in such a way as to minimise obstruction of a potential running path.

I think we should encourage degu owners to optimise their cages and where necessary do a bit of – polite and tactful - prodding. When members show us their cages, maybe we should more often say “good/great cage, BUT...” followed by some concrete suggestions. I can't imagine that any responsible pet owners interested in the welfare of their animals would take that badly. And if they did, we could at least say we have done our best.

[NightwishRaven999]

I have been following the posts here and would like to congradulate everyone who has participated in this thread.
The comments here bring out many excellent points about housing standards, general concensus, monetary restriction and reasonableness.

As Fred points out, being polite and tactful is the best way to prod someone in the right direction. We must also be reasonable and keep in mind it is easy to judge when we do not know the circumstances of this or that person...

I think that as a Forum, we are doing very well in this matter and we must continue to do so.
There have been lots of huge improvements here, whether it be enhancing metal cages or building wooden ones...we have encouraged each other, not with harsh words, but by example, tact and mildness.

Well done everyone.

[fred]

Following on from what I wrote yesterday, I had a closer look at available cages in what I consider the reasonable range between those that are unsuitable/unacceptable and those at the other end which are unaffordable for most of us. I found just three, so it seems we can consider them specifically rather than in general terms. They are:

Sky Xtrail / Liberta Explorer, available in North America as Critter Nation Double.
L 93 x D 63 x H 123 cm
Different versions with doors on either both sides or on side only / with metal or plastic trays are avilable.
This cage is used by several of our members (latest example the cage of lohr500: deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Cage&thread=8858&page=2#66338 )

Liberta Tower
L 94 x D 60 x H 128 cm
For this one I found conflicting values for bar spacing.
Three of these house Amie's brigade.

Montana Aviary Villa Casa 90
L 91 x D 60 x H 127 cm
This is primarily a bird cage and has features that probably render it the least value for money cage out of these three.


Several others on this thread have mentioned standards. I believe it is right that a community like ours should set standards, and we are actually doing this. We have recently discussed a new cage calculator which I am developing ( deguworld.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Cage&action=display&thread=8417 ). The only reason why this project is delayed is that I want to exploit the enormous experience of David (octodons.ch) who has recently joined us here. The calculator will be based on running area. Assuming that, like lohr500's example, the cage has two full and two half levels, all of the three above cages would be suitable to house up to four degus

How do our standards compare to those of others? The Degutopia calculator considers the Montana Vivario 80 monstrosity, which David aptly described as potential solution for ants keeping, as suitable for two degus I am lost for words which our moderators would deem acceptable.

In a different thread, tiifu yesterday referred to the deguforum.de minimum requirements, which are L/H 100 x D 50 x H/L 120 cm. In contrast to us, our German friends are very strict about the 100 cm length minimum. While I believe we can learn a lot from their degu experience, which the community there has been accumulating over a much longer time, this is one the few things I wouldn't agree with. I have seen nothing that would convince me that, with the same number of full and half levels, a cage with L 100 x D 50 cm would be suitable for degus but a cage of L 93 x D 63 cm would not. Note that the latter has a 18% larger running area

[malteser60]

I must admit fred, I didn't really believe you, or want to believe you, about degutopia and the Montana Vivario 80 cage. I thought maybe you had typed the values in wrong, or something like that. But nope, I put in the dimensions of the cage into the degutopia calculator and it said it's suitable for two degus!!! WTF!!! Excuse my language here but that seriously shocked me. It's even smaller than the thickets cage!

[amie]

"Liberta Tower
L 94 x D 60 x H 128 cm
For this one I found conflicting values for bar spacing.
Three of these house Amie's brigade."

Ooops, I got my measurements wrong! lol. I put H148 in another post.

I've flipped these cages on their sides now and they work MUCH better. (pictures to follow in another thread). The degus much prefer the running space and seem VERY happy.

While I definately agree that degus NEED more lengh than height, and the bigger the cage, the better. I don't want this forum to become a place that shuns people for having a cage that's a few cm less than what they deem to be acceptable. My cages fall short here and there (H94, D60, L128), but it's the way you adapt the cage that makes it OK. I've seen cages bigger than mine which are awful. No full running levels other than the base, just small wooden levels and perches.

Like Fred has said, I think that we as a degu community, need to be a little more open minded when it comes to housing. This ofcouse doesn't include the thickets cage or anything of that size! LOL!

And OMG, I think I might try typing hamster cage dimentions into degutopia and see if I can keep degus in that! Shocking!

[NightwishRaven999]

Amie, I am so glad it has worked out !
I am dying to see those photos ! ;D