|
|
Post by cleocat on Aug 19, 2011 13:29:20 GMT
OK, so the other day my degus had babies (one is adopted and we were told she was a male - then out popped 2 pups), and I'm trying to sort out their housing situation etc and am in need of general advice.
The babies are one of each, a girl and a boy. I am going to keep them, and was planning to get the dad and boy neutered when he's old enough, and eventually have them all in the same cage as a family as mum and dad have a close bond and I'm reluctant to separate them.
So my questions are these:
1) The dad is 6 months, is this too young for neutering? Our exotic vet says 3 months, but the internet says a whole load of different things, including 12 months.
2) How long exactly would I have to separate the males for after their operation before reintroducing them to the girls?
and 3) What are the best dimensions for a cage to house all 4 of them?
|
|
|
|
Post by Maravilla on Aug 19, 2011 16:04:01 GMT
Hello cleocat,
I don't know how this situation is handled in the English spoken world. We generally recommend not to have more than one male degu (it doesn't matter whether neutered or not) together with female degus. The reason is that there is a high possibility of aggression between the guys because of the ladies. It can be all fine, but normally there will be fights between them. I personally would not risk it, and less now because the dad is an adolescent (the mom as well?), a hard time for degus and their owners as they often tend to fight for the top position in the group.
To answer your questions:
Male degus reach sexual maturity at the age of 12 weeks (+/- 1 week) in general. You can have him neutered shortly before this age and then you don't have to separate him from the girls. If you have a male degu neutered while he is already sexually mature it is recommended to have him 6 weeks separated from the girls to avoid new babies.
The question is now if you separated him before the birth of the babies or afterwards. Degus can "produce" new babies directly after delivery, so maybe it was already too late.
The question is now what to do. You can have both guys neutered and then form two groups (m+f each) or you form two groups (one with boys, one with girls) or you look for a nice family for the littly baby boy.
I cannot answer the question about the cage dimensions as I have no idea how this idea is handled here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ady on Aug 19, 2011 17:13:43 GMT
Hallo,
well, according to my vet, male degu can be neutered once he's fully grown (he needs testosterone to develop properly) about 5-6 months of age. There was a thread recently on forum about this but lots of different opinions about min. age for neutering.
If u decide to get him done, make sure your vet has done the surgery before few times.
As Maravilla pointed out, two males often fight when kept with female, also they can fight even when kept in different cages but close enough to smell them.
|
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Aug 19, 2011 17:19:06 GMT
I think the cage dimensions will depend on what direction you intend to take . . . female group and male group, or two male and female groups? I agree with Maravilla that having two females and two males all in one cage will be dangerous. I think that the father will become very aggressive with the pup and could eventually kill him. I guess either of the divisions we recommend have only two degus per cage . . . unless the little boy is rehomed, as Maravilla suggests.
Well!! I've just repeated everything Maravilla said!! LOL! I don't think you should pursue keeping all four together.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maravilla on Aug 19, 2011 18:22:53 GMT
male degu can be neutered once he's fully grown (he needs testosterone to develop properly) about 5-6 months of age. This is very interesting to read. I have checked all my books (including one written by a vet specialised in rodents and rabbits) and some web pages but I didn't find any proved answer for the minimum age for neutering. I admit never having spoken to my vet about this topic as I got my male degus already neutered. But what is most interesting is the explanation of your vet for this quite late age. A couple of years ago there was a dissertation here in Germany and there was one very important point. It said, that only 7% of the testosterone produced by a male degu is produced in the testicles. Seems that the most important percentage of testosterone is produced in the adrenal glands. So, even after being neutered, a degu produces enough testosterone to develop and have sexual feelings. And I tell you, they have ;D! |
|
|
|
Post by fred on Aug 19, 2011 19:02:57 GMT
Hi cleocat,
most has already been said, but here are a few practical considerations after looking at your earlier posts.
Unfortunately it is likely that Charlie is pregnant again. On the plus side she must be at least 11 months old (?) and has only two pups in the current litter. However, if I understand this correctly, she was a bit poorly recently. It's important she gets the best possible diet; others may have suggestions here, and perhaps you can also talk to your vet about it.
I agree that having two males in a group with females can be problematic. In contrast to the wild where there are often two males in a group, they can't just leave and join another group if they don't get along. I think it would be best if you could find a good home for the boy where perhaps he can join a lonely degu (think of Amie's Elijah and the boys). I understand why you would like to keep him, but if there are more boys on the way, you couldn't keep all of them anyway.
While there is at present a bit of uncertainty whether the minimum age for neutering should be 3 or 6 months, the 12 months you have seen on the internet are definitely invalid information. Which means that from this perspective, you could have him neutered any day now. It is not a certainty that Charlie got pregnant during her post partum oestrus and we do not know at the moment how much of an exception a mating about three weeks after birth is. Personally, I would consider to leave him with mum for two weeks and have him neutered then.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ady on Aug 19, 2011 20:15:45 GMT
male degu can be neutered once he's fully grown (he needs testosterone to develop properly) about 5-6 months of age. This is very interesting to read. I have checked all my books (including one written by a vet specialised in rodents and rabbits) and some web pages but I didn't find any proved answer for the minimum age for neutering. I admit never having spoken to my vet about this topic as I got my male degus already neutered. But what is most interesting is the explanation of your vet for this quite late age. A couple of years ago there was a dissertation here in Germany and there was one very important point. It said, that only 7% of the testosterone produced by a male degu is produced in the testicles. Seems that the most important percentage of testosterone is produced in the adrenal glands. So, even after being neutered, a degu produces enough testosterone to develop and have sexual feelings. And I tell you, they have ;D! Thinking about it, I might have added the thing about testosterone from different source, not my vet words. But she did tell me neutering from 5 months onward is fine. Another member got the same answer from vet, but actually no reason for this was given. I might send email to my vet to clear it up. |
|
|
|
Post by Maravilla on Aug 21, 2011 14:19:28 GMT
fred posted this question as well in a German degu forum. Until now, 3 persons answered (I know, it's not very representative  ) who had their degus operated at the age of 8-12 weeks, being good health condition and sufficient, age-appropriate weight the most important factors. |
|
) who had their degus operated at the age of 8-12 weeks, being good health condition and sufficient, age-appropriate weight the most important factors.