Reintroducing my boys

[littlesam]

Hey everyone,

Having a bit of a stressful weekend with the boys unfortunately. The older, Gin, has come down with a respiratory infection and is a poorly little man. I've separated him from the younger one, Juice, and he's living in a makeshift hospital cage with pretty much free range to run around while I'm working and seems to be making a pretty strong recovery with the help of antibiotics, heat pads and 'build-up' feed powder stuff.

Good news so far.

The problem is that just before I separated them, Juice has been a horrible little bully and has given Gin a really hard time. He's always been obviously the alpha since he arrived (Gin was on his own for about a year before that) but they've never had more than little squabbles and they play/sleep together fine. At least I thought that was the case - Gin has lost so much weight that it seems Juice has been stopping him eating while he's been poorly : (

I took him to the vet today and even though he's confident Gin will make a full recovery, he told me that I'll never be able to reintroduce them now as Juice has exerted his dominance and they will always fight, and the stress of living with Juice will keep causing his respiratory problems to flare up! (this is the second bout he's had in a year). Is this really true? Despite what has happened, Gin really was happier with a pal until recently and Juice is a skittish mess since he's been on his own.

I'm reluctant to do anything that will put Gin through further stress - he's always been completely docile and never fights back in their squabbles and loves to snuggle up to me, whereas Juice hates to be handled but loves to be dominant! Is there any hope for them? Realistically, in our tiny flat we couldn't keep two cages so separation means Sophie's Choice, one of them has to go : (

My other worry now is that because Juice has been left in their cage, if I do try and reintroduce them he'll already have his macho on and make it double difficult!

*Sigh* : (

[kovu07]

Ok i'm not a vet but

'he told me that I'll never be able to reintroduce them now as Juice has exerted his dominance and they will always fight'

Sounds like a load of rubbish, surely every pack / group of animals has one who is in charge, which is what Juice was trying to do. Saying they can never be reintroduced because one has tried to exert dominance to become the leader is silly, as there is always a leader.

I think i'd wait a while before reintroducing them, just have the cages close by so they can see and smell one another, until they have both had time to calm down. Also with Gin having been on his own for so long he may take longer to accept another goo, however if he is docile i'm sure he will submit pretty quickly when he is back to good health. You've already said that Gin was happier with a friend so I think it would be cruel to leave him on his own again, and i'm sure in time both of them will live happily together.

[littlesam]

Thank you, this is what I thought! It just really put the wind up me - when I go to the trouble of seeing a vet who is supposedly a specialist in 'exotics' (although I never did understand what a turtle and a degu have in common) I want to trust what he tells me.

When I introduced them initially, just over a year ago now, they took to each other almost immediately, Gin was so happy to just be submissive that they suited each other pretty well and no nasty fights! I'm just worried now that the dynamic will be different now Juice knows he's bested Gin, and I really don't want to see him get hurt.

[littlesam]

(over-protective mum)

[kovu07]

I don't think the dynamic will be different Juice knows he is in charge and so does Gin, no need for fights about dominance, or for juice to make Gin submit so I honestly think they will be ok. Espcially as they were fine when you introduced them, which is the hard part.

As for the vet, surely even a non-exotic vet could have told you that there needs to be a leader, I mean even I know that and i'm not a vet. If he is good for treatment I would keep going, but if you are unsure of something he says just ask us lot on here.

[littlesam]

Well yes, I did mainly want a second opinion : )

I think he's good for treatment, I just perhaps get the impression he didn't expect me to know anything about degus which is worrying if that's his experience of degu owners!

I guess I'll just proceed with caution once Gin gets his strength back and introduce them like I did the first time, keeping an eye on them. In the meantime back to the 24 hour nurse thing, another heat pad to warm up, I'm sure he's milking this for all the pampering it's worth...!

[kovu07]

I'm pretty sure most of the degu owners on here know more about them than most vets, so him not expecting you to know about them is indeed worrying, although i'm glad he is good at treating them. Your plan sounds like a brill idea, and yes he probably is milking it for all it's worth but it's impossible to say no to the little guys even when they aren't ill.

[littlesam]

bit of an update!

Gin's chest infection is more or less gone and he seems pretty content, so much so that i've reintroduced them and there's really been no squabbling or bullying at all!

That said, there's obviously still a problem with eating; even though Gin is eating he just isn't putting the weight on. He's always been a bit 'runty', but he's staying around the 110g mark which is, y'know, tiny Then on the other hand, Juice is fairly lively but up to a chubby 250g! i'm not sure if he's getting fatter, or just looks that way because Gin is so small at the mo...

i've given them separate feeding bowls, but they've never had that before and from watching them it just looks like Juice is eating from both, while Gin just buries his food straight away which inevitably later gets stolen (he's always done this). He is eating, both in the cage and from my hand, and i've made him some of the build up treats from the recipe on here which he likes, but he's just not getting bigger.

i assume i am doing something wrong, so really need some owner advice here! When i took him to the vet he really wasn't concerned about his weight and he hasn't lost any more since. He's smaller than what he used to be by a long way but at the same time he's still totally active and happy. Any ideas how to help him put the weight on? (while putting Juice on a bit of a diet at the same time with any luck!)

[deguconvert]

I have to say I disagree with Smux's recommendation for solitary treatment. That is too severe for this in my opinion. It isn't a disciplinary issue, nor it is a problem between the goos, it is just that Gin is not putting on weight.

I think I would say, yes give him a daily ration of the home made recipe, and if possible while you are holding him so that you can know how much he has eaten and when he feels that he has had enough. I would offer him some other treats that are helpful in beefing up such as, the herbs oregano, dill, basil, and rosemary. These are calorie dense and are a good option for Gin. Also, it wouldn't hurt for him to have a daily ration of 3-6 sunflower seeds, alternated every other day with millet. Millet, if you have it on the stalk, give one to two of the 1/2 thumb sized clumps of seeds. Both of these are fairly high in fat, but these amounts are within tolerable amounts and should help him to put on some mass. I do recommend that when you are giving him these things, that you be holding him, again for the purpose of really knowing what he is taking in. Also, weigh him regularly to see what is happening. If you see no weight gain following this after two weeks . . . I'd recommend that you buy some of the dipping strips that are used to reveal sugar levels in urine for diabetics. I would be wondering by that time if Gin could be diabetic.

[deguconvert]

May I add, yes Smux, I see that you say "IF" there is squabbling or fighting over the food. I still think it is too severe a response.