introducing baby females and males

[gemmagreaves]

Hi i was reading some of the posts and I'm trying to introduce some baby boys and girls that we've recently adopted . theres 2 boys, 3 girls. The advice ive read says to separate the cage but to swap them over every 2-3 days to mix their scents up. well i tried that and the next thing i knew there was 4 in one section and one in the other - i didnt realise there was a gap in my divider! but they didnt even seem to be bothered by each other - this is literally 30mins after putting them in the 2 halves of the cage! so i got the other male and handled him a but, handled all the females and put him and a female in a neutral place, and it didnt go as well, but with the other 2 he was fine so i took the divider out and they all got on perfect for an hour! until, the latter male then started terrorising the cage! even his brother. but then he settles down and is fine again, theyre not drawing blood, they bare their teeth and squeak (more than usual) jump around a lot and calm down again. one females doing the hiccup sounding squeak and they're all sat silent and still. whats going on and should i leave them a bit longer or separate them? they are very strange..... but so cute! ps - we're planning on neautering before they get to mating age!

[Mojo]

Hi,

So it sounds like you may have manged to do an introduction without trying lol. If they are not fighting then I'd probably monitor them and see what happens. Can I ask what age they are? If they are less than 8 weeks then it's likely that they'll get on straight away. If they are older then you may have just got lucky.

You say you want to get the males neutered before they get to mating age. So they'll be ready to mate at 4 or 5 months old. You'll also note that they will get more dominant by that age and start to challenge each other for dominance. In terms of neutering you can only do this once the males are at least 1 year old or you can cause health and development issues.

So if they are less than 5 months then they could be breeding very soon and you won't be able to get them neutered for the above reasons. So you to avoid any small (but cute) surprises you may want to consider ages and when they should start living together?

[deguconvert]

I agree with Mojo. You are going to have up to a year ahead of you where you run the risk of pregnancies. It is my understanding that to neuter before a year of age is really quite dangerous for the male. (Females have such a low chance of survival, that getting them spayed is unthinkable.) So, that means that you have these males from age 5-6 months up to 12-13 months where they will be combative over the females. They will fight fiercely, drawing blood, and will even fight to the death over the females. I don't know this for certain, but they may even injure the females in their crazed states. So, you can't have your males with your females during that span of time, nor can you have them in the same room even. Just the scent of the females will drive the two boys against each other.

I think it is wonderful that you desire to have a mixed group, with neutered males. I kind of think you've jumped the gun a little though, and may face more financial expense over the next several months. Then again, you may be well aware of all this and fully prepared for it all.

[listracian]

I called the vet today about neutering/spading as my females have kicked out one of my baby females but he said that he couldn't do anything until they had grown some more and as I will have to take her out from the males in a few weeks. It can be done but is really dangerous and at a young age there is a possibility of it not working or something.

As for the males being aggressive.... my male cage is above and next to female cages and they aren't bothered in the slightest. Then again they are related to the females in the cage next to them. Then again when they run past the other females there aren't any issues either. Maybe I am just lucky?

[deguconvert]

Hmmm, maybe? There have been other posts in other threads by members whose males in one cage were fighting horribly, and drawing blood. They were positioned next to a cage of females. Once moved to seperate rooms, the fighting was resolved and discontinued. I think it is more the norm for the fighting when within "smelling range" of females. Lucky you, to not have an issue with it at all. How old are the males?

[gemmagreaves]

hey thankyou for all your advice, I came home from work last night and they were all snuggled into a little mound fast asleep so i think that went well! i left my other half to keep an eye on them! i think the trick was - ive got 2 big wheels in the cage and whenever one went to challenge another the challengee ran into a wheel and just kept running so the challenger got bored and found something else to do. the males are 9 weeks old and the girls are nearly 4 months old.
ive got another cage with 2 females and 3 males in so if i separate the females off do you think i would be better mixing the boys with the older males that are about 2.5 years old? i didnt really want to do that as one of the females and males are a couple that i rescued and had been together for about a year, but i dont really know what else to do. i think i would be better maybe rehoming the girls as we're adopting 3 more little boys in 2 weeks from aj. i thought it would be fairly easy to have a cage full of babies if i got the males neutered. ive never had a pet in surgery before so i didnt realise they couldnt be neutered so young does anyone know anyone who would want three girls? and do you think this is the best thing to do?

[Mojo]

lol what a family you have there. ;D

So as you baby males are so young you may find it is easier to integrate them with older males. Degus have a nartual instinct to look after babies of their species and hence adult males will naturally not act too aggresivly to baby males. However yours are on teh cusp off becoming "teenagers" so you'd need to start that process asap. See www.degutopia.co.uk for a guide on introducing baby males to adult males.

Yes you have to wait a year for neutering or it can stunt growth and even cause problems with carcadin rythm etc (to do with lack of hormones). I assume the males in your other cage of males and females are already neutered? If so then you'd be able to introduce the babies but at 5 months they'd be ready to mate with the females and start challenging the existing males for dominance males. Also as they are not neutered they may start to fight to the death over the females.

I think your best bet is to keep the male babies together. Introduce the baby girls to the adult males and females (provided the adult males are neutered already). Once the male babies get to 1 year you can neuter them and potentially integrate them into the female/male group although the number involved may mean your cage isn't big enough.......

If you do want to re-home the 3 young girls, as a last resort, then I am sure someone here could help.

Where are you located?

[gemmagreaves]

hey i'm located in newcastle but all our family are in york and we're moving to lincoln in 3 weeks so we're quite spread over the uk! lol. unfortunately our males ARE NOT neutered. we've adopted both sets which were used for breeding and we've only had them all a month or 2. i know a really good vets in lincoln so we're waiting until we've moved to get them neutered. i dont really know newcastle that well to be honest so i wanted to wait as i trust our lincoln vet and they had lots of experience with small animals. i think i will ask and see if any degu finatics would adopt the little girls because id rather they went to another loving home than become pregnant by dad or get fought over by 2 randy little boys! and as we cant guarantee the females we've adopted arent pregnant its maybe for the best or we'll end up with 100s!

[Mojo]

oh dear sounds like you could have some babies on the way if the older males haven't been "snipped". Still they are very cute so there's an upside :-)

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out!

[gemmagreaves]

hey thanks i will do! they're scrapping over their 3 food bowls now - other than get them one each (5) they will have to learn to share! they sound like piglets! it will be very hard to give these up! they're adorable! how do i know if the other females are pregnant?

[Mojo]

So what I understand females are pregnant for about 3 months at about 1-1.5 months they can start to visibily put on weight and start showing (I have no experience just what I read).

You could weigh your goos and see if they put on weight every few days or a week. That'll be a good indication of babies....

Failing that the Vet will probably be able to tell you

[gemmagreaves]

haha if i can keep them still long enough i wil try and weigh them! thanks for all your advice and i will keep my fingers crossed! theyve recently lost quite a bit of weight as their previous owners didnt have a wheel in the cage and we've given them 3 which they're never out of so this ones going to be quite a hard one to judge i fear! i will keep you posted - especially with pics! if they do have a litter. thanks for all your advice and we'll see what happens next :-D

[gemmagreaves]

hi just a thought - if i can introduce the female from the group of 3 with the other male and female, and add all the baby girls, then get the male neutered when we move, then put the other 2 men into the other cage with the little boys, would that work? that would mean we have 5 females and a male in one and 4 males in the other?

[Mojo]

Provided the male won;t breed with your girls in the meantime then you might be ok. Worse case is he breeds with them all and youy end up with multiple pregnancies......