|
Post by listracian on Feb 24, 2009 20:22:28 GMT
OK so I have Enigma and Allegra who I would love to move into Saphira and Houdini's cage but there is the possibility of Allegra being pregnant and I erm think she is.
I have the two cages next to each other but Saphira and Houdini's cage is just alot bigger and would make more sense to move them all in there. I just don't know whether it is a good idea to go through introducing them if Allegra is pregnant because its probably really stressful.
But if she has lots of babies and they were all getting on Saphira and Houdini could help with them...
So anyone have any tips? I really don't know what to do whether to leave it or push it.
|
|
|
Post by phoenixm on Feb 24, 2009 21:20:16 GMT
i am surprised no one answered your other original posting re this situation... i do not have baby-goo experience or i would give some advice... =(
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Feb 24, 2009 23:19:37 GMT
This is the first I have seen of your post, so sorry I am not quicker in posting any reply.
My first questions to you are: How long have you had Allegra? Do you have any way of deducing how far along she is in her pregnancy? Is she beginning to show?
I am thinking that if there is still some time before the babies are due, like another 4 weeks at least, that introducing them would be OK. Especially if it were easy. But if she is closer to her due date, then maybe not just yet. As I am typing there are other questions coming to mind.
Have you had them out together, in a neutral location, where you could see them interact? How do they relate through the bars of their cages. What are your plans for the babies once they are old enough to be rehomed? Do you plan to keep any of the female babies? Because IF you plan to keep any of the females, it would go easier if the other females knew them (the babies) from birth up.
Hmmm, as you can see there are a few angles from which to consider the whole question. Perhaps you can answer some of these and then go from there?
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Feb 25, 2009 6:32:36 GMT
I got Allegra last week, her and Enigma were in a pet shop and I couldn't just leave them there. The reason I think she is pregnant is because how large she is around her middle and my other girls don't look like that. Also she seems to have gained weight in the few days that I have had her. I mean i can't be certain she is pregnant because I have only had her a few days, the shop said that they were taken into the shop in two carry cases each with one male and on female in. They believe thats how they were living at home but I am pretty certain Enigma isn't pregnant at least she isn't showing but I will find out in 3 months... its Allegra I am worried about at the moment.
I have had them all in a neutral setting once so far and Enigma started fighting if Saphira or Houdini went anywhere near Allegra. Allegra was fine with them both though.
As for how they act through the cages, I think they are playing. They seem to be chasing each other back and forth and Enigma seems to love it and Allegra seems to be getting on with them through the bars, just as Enigma seems somewhat protective of her mum I'm not sure what to do.
As for the babies, it depends on how many she has if I can keep all of the girls in the big cage I will and if i can I might try and keep the boys in my other cage, but I won't be able to keep the boys unless Allegra, Enigma, Saphira and Houdini are all in the same cage.
|
|
|
Post by TiffaLynn on Feb 25, 2009 7:00:12 GMT
what ever the turn out keep us posted!
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Feb 25, 2009 15:29:42 GMT
It kind of sounds like she is close to her due date . . . and I am not really sure what to think. I think I would be inclined to continue to let them meet on neutral ground. Just be extremely careful about holding Allegra. If she is hugely pregnant it will be VERY easy to injure her or the babies. IF she is hugely pregnant, you could have babies ANY day now.
So if you are uncertain about lifting her, don't do it. Best to follow the cautious path than to regret it afterward. I'm not helping much, I know. JACKDANIELS??? You have lots of experience, what are your thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by ra on Feb 25, 2009 16:42:00 GMT
I agree with Deguconvert. It sounds as though Allegra is close to birthing.
Personally I would not try to integrate the two new Degus into your existing cage since Allegra appears to be close to giving birth. She has Enigma to help her when she does give birth. It would be much safer for Allegra in the smaller cage with her current cage mate than in the larger cage with two new Degus. My Mocha gave birth and cared for her 8 babies all by herself with only me to help. (and what did I know I thought she was a he!!!!)Surprisingly she did fine though I do believe she was exhausted much of the time. Enigma will help out there so I would not worry about Allegra or the babies.
Try not to handle Allegra right now. Do provide her with a nice sturdy box (cardboard will do) and nesting material. You can tear up paper towels or buy nesting materials at a pet shop. Make sure food and water are readily available at all times so she doesn't have to travel far.
If you hear her making distress calls - very loud cheeps - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PICK HER UP.
I made that mistake not knowing Mocha was pregnant - she bit me right through my middle finger side to side. I had to calmly stand there telling her it was alright and just wait for her to release my finger. Looking back I would say she was starting to have labor pains but I had no idea.
|
|
|
Post by jackdaniels on Feb 25, 2009 16:49:04 GMT
Is Allegra aggressive towards you? Stick lots of tissue paper etc in to the cage and see what she does Are you able to take any pics of her? Don't worry if you cant usually isn't much help. It does sound like she may well be pregnant. Expect between 5-7 pups maybe even 9 . From experience I wasn't able to tell from looking at my female that she was pregnant it was more to do with her behaviour when she had 3. But I could always be wrong. I think you still need more time with the introductions to be honest but its hard to say. Is it worth the risk if any random fights kick off? . When my cages are placed by side by side any cages they are always fighting tails shaking like mad, EEk stratching and biting each other. I haven't had any luck with introductions. But when I have them out in a neutral place they are completely fine due to being distracted.
|
|
|
Post by ra on Feb 25, 2009 16:51:56 GMT
More thoughts, you will be able to keep Allegra, Enigma (love the names by the way) and the babies together until the babies are weaned at about 6 weeks. Then you will need to separate out the males.
Hopefully you will be able to introduce all the females at that time so they can be caged together in the larger cage and the boys in the smaller.
Will have to wait to see what she has. Mocha had three girls and five boys - there was a ninth baby that must have been stillborn. I kept counting and recounting (in shock) and ended up with 8. At the end of the first week I managed to clean out the cage and found the ninth buried under the nest box.
Here's hoping if Allegra is indeed pregnant - she gives birth soon and to a small litter of pups. Good luck. I'll keep checking back to see how things are going.
|
|
|
Post by jackdaniels on Feb 25, 2009 17:01:40 GMT
I didn't seperate my last litter until they was around 8 weeks. And im not 100% sure if my degus are how they are because of this but they are now they are the friendliest and best behaved degus I have. They are so clever, great climbers and they tag team Clyde (the dad) in boxing matches and always win. ;D
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Feb 25, 2009 19:13:43 GMT
picture of herThat shows her belly rather well but looking at her now she seems even bigger. I'm not over feeding them so i have at least been able to count that out. Allegra is fine with me, she will happily climb out the cage and sit on me and she isn't that afraid of loud noises like all the others are. She has been fighting with Enigma a little though. Mostly though she is really happy she doesn't seem that bothered unless Enigma gets on her nerves. They have a huge cardboard box and a wooden house like thing in their cage which they love to sleep in. I think she is pregnant that or there is something wrong with her because she is getting fatter, noticably rather quickly. I only got them last Thursday and there has been a difference for sure. She is really lively though which is why I called her Allegra in the first place. I just hope introducing mum and kids to Saphira and Houdini won't be that much of a problem.
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Feb 25, 2009 20:11:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by ra on Feb 25, 2009 20:14:37 GMT
Yes, I'd say she is definetly pregnant. You can almost see the round heads of the babies. Have you noticed any movement in her belly when she sits on you? I could feel the babies moving when Mocha sat in my hands.
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Feb 25, 2009 20:29:00 GMT
I haven't felt anything move though I have been checking. I am pretty sure I saw something moving yesterday though.
|
|
|
Post by jackdaniels on Feb 25, 2009 22:12:00 GMT
Loooks like someone is going to be a degu nanny
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Feb 26, 2009 2:45:19 GMT
I agree! Our three boys are a little . . . "FLUFFY" . . . an needing a slight reduction in calories I'm thinking, but they look very different from Allegra. Her sides look taut rather than smooshie, like our goos do. It is SO COOL to see her! Thanks so much for taking the pictures. Please do keep us informed as to the happenings. And please do follow the advice so well given from both Ra and Jackdaniels. They are both well experienced with baby goos and excellent in helping out.
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Feb 26, 2009 21:08:21 GMT
Thanks guys this is all really helpful! Just for curiosity sake, are there any like obvious things that Allegra may do just before she gives birth so I might have an idea when she is due?
|
|
|
Post by jackdaniels on Feb 26, 2009 21:16:14 GMT
Loud eeks slightly spaced a part (loud scream) and nest building. Most of the time its more the case in just having a look and waiting. Degu pups are absolutely adorable you will fall in love instantly. Many people start handling litters straight away but I have always left them for at least a few day. If you need anymore advise just let me know
|
|
|
Post by ra on Feb 27, 2009 21:09:38 GMT
Ditto Jackdaniels though I had to help Mocha round up her pups (or so I thought anyway) so I was handling them early. They were out and about the second day. Since they hadn't developed the ability to regulate their body temperatures just yet I panicked and thought oh no they will get cold, too far away and die. I was forever gathering up babies putting them back into the nest box. They were almost too much for poor Mocha to handle!
I can't remember how long it takes for them to thermoregulate - my Degu handbook is at home. I'll try to remember to check.
|
|
|
Post by listracian on Mar 4, 2009 6:58:19 GMT
OKay, little update... Allegra is getting seriously grumpy though she will still happily sit and talk to my other two through the cage but she keeps telling Enigma off. She is also seriously fat... as im she is now a ball of fluff with a head and tail. She isn't running around as much now either, but I don't blame her, she is huge!
|
|