Advice for the future for me..?

[Rachel]

Ok.. so this isn't happening right now, but when Bu is better, I will be putting Mali and Bu back together. I am still hoping to add in one more girl as I think that will help take the pressure off between the two girls.

Basically, I am dreading reuniting Mali and Bu! They fought a while ago, and were seperated for a few days. All was going well, the Bu got a bite on the leg.. then it got infected.. then she wouldn't leave it alone.. and now it has stitches in (told you she's not being reunited yet!)
I just don't know what to do. I do think they would benefit from having more company than they do currently, but I'd be worried about having to go through all of this with Bu's leg again.

So..

1. Do you think adding another one is a good idea?

2. How would you introduce the (potential) three? Mali and Bu together, new one alone..? Mali and new one? Bu and new one?

Very confused.

Even if I don't end up adding a third, I'm so anxious about reuniting Mali and Bu. And of course, they will pick up on that and act even worse...

[jackdaniels]

1. From everything I have heard you say about Bu I don't think it would be a good idea introducing anymore degus to them. But then again the new girl could ending up being the domiant one. If that is to be the case then I would expect the new girl will have to worse than Mali.

2. I would introduce them one at a time starting with the degu you will have most problems with.

[Rachel]

Hmm.. Yeah you're right... Part of me wonders what to do with Mali. In all honesty, she seems to want to be on her own. The separation hasn't bothered her nearly as much as it upset Bu.. but then what do I do with an ASBO Degu?

Actually I do have a question for you. I think I saw you mention on another thread that if the introductions with your chinchillas wasn't working after a week, it wouldn't work full stop. Does the same apply to Degus..? Should I put some kind of time limit? It's not like the two of them are strange to each other, they're sisters. I won't even consider them going together until Bu is fully healed and back to her usual self.. I've held Bu fairly near the cage where Mali is before and Mali's gone from happily chatting to her, to warning her to back off. She still scares Bu so much that I get the non stop squeak that doesn't stop until I take her out and stroke her tummy.

[buzz]

Do you think its Mali's territorial side or she just plain doesn't like Bu? What cage do you have for them?

Can you provide attention to two cages? I'd just leave Mali on her own if she prefers her own company. Someone member/s have let the battles go on for too long and one of their degus ended up dead, its not worth trying to reintroduce if shes happy.

I'd advise to give Bu time to adjust and see what shes like before you consider adopting another. If Bu on the other hand wants that degu companionship then you'll have to go for it because its very likely as time goes on that she'll get depressed. What do you think?

[jackdaniels]

Nov 26, 2008 21:54:47 GMT Rachel said:

Hmm.. Yeah you're right... Part of me wonders what to do with Mali. In all honesty, she seems to want to be on her own. The separation hasn't bothered her nearly as much as it upset Bu.. but then what do I do with an ASBO Degu?

Actually I do have a question for you. I think I saw you mention on another thread that if the introductions with your chinchillas wasn't working after a week, it wouldn't work full stop. Does the same apply to Degus..? Should I put some kind of time limit? It's not like the two of them are strange to each other, they're sisters. I won't even consider them going together until Bu is fully healed and back to her usual self.. I've held Bu fairly near the cage where Mali is before and Mali's gone from happily chatting to her, to warning her to back off. She still scares Bu so much that I get the non stop squeak that doesn't stop until I take her out and stroke her tummy.

Degus can/do take a lot longer to introduce. The quickest introduction I have read about took 5 days or I have heard people saying it tok them a year to introduce them.

[Rachel]

I've got the common doghealth cage.. and an old rat cage. I did have Bu in there but the flying saucer didn't fit and that's her favourite toy. So I've separated the bottom tier, and that's Bu... and Mali has to top two. She's not bothered if she has a wheel or not.

It's really annoying I wish I could see some clear path through all this.

In all honesty, from what I could work out from their behaviour - when I first had them, Bu was dominant. It does seem to be an age issue, as they both changed character, so extreme actually I was wondering if I had them mixed up (I don't, I checked)

Even when they talk to each other now through the cage, Mali will threaten Bu... so it could be territorial... In which case what's the best way to try and get it through the Mali that she should share?

[buzz]

Nov 27, 2008 14:16:31 GMT Rachel said:

In all honesty, from what I could work out from their behaviour - when I first had them, Bu was dominant. It does seem to be an age issue, as they both changed character, so extreme actually I was wondering if I had them mixed up (I don't, I checked)

Even when they talk to each other now through the cage, Mali will threaten Bu... so it could be territorial... In which case what's the best way to try and get it through the Mali that she should share?

Neutering males tend to help with territorial issues, but females are obviously a completely different story. She might get more relaxed as time goes on though when she gets fed up of her own company, I think deguconvert experienced that?

I think the only way to make her see she can share is through taking her power away from her... bear with me....

I have heard on a rat forum that if one of the rats gets too big for their boots that its possible for the owner to pin them to the floor (gently) asserting their dominance over the cage i.e the cage becomes theirs and not the rats. It sounds daft I know but I'd thought I'd mention it just incase as it does seem to work for these people.

Or theres conditioning, i.e. whenever mali makes threatening noises to Bu squirt her with water. It sounds mean but what your doing is called negative reinforcement where the animal begins to associate that if she does that then something bad will happen. Then gradually move on to face to face meetings, if Mali threatens then use the water.

Do these sound completely idiotic?

But forgetting all the above, if Mali is a lone degu I really don't think she'll ever accept Bu back regardless of what you do.

[deguconvert]

Yeah, my one degu finally gave in after a combination of things.

1. Sick of himself.
2. Negative reinforcement when he threatened. I would put them together in the cage, and then stand there, watching every movement and sound. Any time he was threatening, I would do one of two things: A. I would squeak loudly at them both. B. I would blow really hard on them.

These would work for a few minutes, but then they would get so hot and bothered with each other that the fight was going to break out no matter what. That's when I would have to reach in, grab one of them, and separate them again. I did this day after day, after day, after day. Gradually they began to last longer before they would show signs of getting out of control. It took about 4-5 months, but they finally did click, and all has been very good since!

[Rachel]

I don't think I like the idea of squirting them with water.. But blowing on them worked when they were bickering a while back.

I'm not sure what to make of the rat method, if you have a link or something I wouldn't mind having a read of that one.

Obviously it's still a while before I can reunite them, Bu's going to the vets again today (I think it's about making sure she hasn't taken out her stitches, the best news - She's left them alone!)
This is really the first time I've kept more than one rodent. We have two budgies and they fight.. used to be a lot more when there were three of them.. but they'll fight, and then two minutes later, they'll be.. err... loving.. to each other again. I know that the goos are different I just can't understand why she hates her so much.

What's the advice for making them both smell the same? They do kind of live in the same cage... so they should smell the same...?

[buzz]

I don't think the rat method would work after thinking about it, rats pin each other to assert dominance... I'm forgetting that degus don't do that so she probably wouldn't understand.

Alot of people use water, only a gentle squirt, because they will immediately stop what they are doing to clean themselves. Say for example they were attacking each other viciously, blowing on them is probably not going to be effective but water will.

To smell the same.... as far as I'm aware the only thing is vanilla essence and the same sand bath.

Hope everything goes ok at the vets for you.