Degus fighting . . . or picked on

[deguconvert]

This is my first time here, but boy am I glad to have somewhere to go and ask for advice!

In September our family entered the world of Degu Love. Our first two degu's broke us in gently and we were falling in love. Four weeks later, being rather stupid about the jumping capability of this adorable creature, we lost one of our first two in an accidental drowning . . . he jumped into the toilet, unbeknownst to any of us until it was too late. A couple hours later we were the proud owners of two new, month old, male degus to become companions for our newly grieved single male.

All boys were introduced slowly over a weeks time, and all seemed to be good. Now, six weeks into their newly made family group, there is great unrest in the nest. The oldest, original degu (Reepicheep) is fighting with one of the new ones (Peekatchew). Initially it seemed that the younger one was the provoker of all aggressions. Peekatchew would shriek and chase Reepicheep all over the room or the cage. They would stand chest to chest and weave back and forth while emiting all kinds of angry sounds. I thought it was just the stage of yound Peekatchew as he sought to establish some standing among the three. Now it has escalated.

Peekatchew has several scabbed over bites on his body. His fur is beginning to look rough, not soft and smooth like the other two. I have noticed that when Reepicheep greets the submissive third degu (Snuggabug), Snug presents his backside, then they nuzzle and all is well. When Reepicheep comes upon Peekatchew, Peek will present his backside and Reep will sniff then bite him. Immediately the fight is on, but Peekatchew is decidedly getting the worst of it. Reepicheep is completely bite free.

WHAT DO WE DO??? We really love these little guys, and will not part with any. Please, will this resolve on it's own, or do we have to take measures to separate them? If we separate, will we need to purchase another degu for the one that is alone again? Will increasing their cage space reduce the fighting?

Thanks for you help, and thanks for reading so much writing!
Deguconvert

[Lala]

Hello!

Sorry to hear you lost a baby! But congratulations on gaining 2 new goos .

Do they fight and squabble so much when they're out for play time or is just confined to their cage? It might have been a fight over dominance. Was Reepicheep the dominant goo in your previous pair? And is Peekatchew the dominant in your new pair? It might be that there were original squabblings over dominance, Peekatchew didn't back down and their was one big fight! Just watch them closely, Peekatchew might realise that Reepicheep is the dominant and things should return to normal.
If not then try separating Peekatchew for a while and start over with the introductions!
Do they fight while out for play time or is just confined to the cage?

Hope that helps!

.x.x.x.

[buzz]

Might be dominance or Reepicheep might not like Peekatchew by the whole sniffing and then biting, and because the behaviour is displayed both inside and out of the cage. Its difficult to judge. How big is the cage then, but I have my suspisions that it wouldn't solve things? In my opinion, you may have to take one out of the equation and get him a new buddy. But wait for others to reply as they may have a few tricks they can share with you.

[jolie]

Sorry to hear about your loss and about your trouble... You may want to try removing Reep into a different cage for a while, then begin re-introductions once Peek has healed completely. If Peek is /starting/ to be submissive, but Reep is still biting, there may be a difference in smell, etc. Once Peek has healed, try sand-bathing ALL of them at once with new sand with a natural scent to it (some people swear by vanilla bean extract). Now they all smell the same. Do the sand bath in 'neutral territory' (not in a cage, try the bathtub). See if that helps. Otherwise, I don't know.
It is a serious matter if Peek is being bitten 'for real' -blood drawing amongst degus is not good. There's a serious risk of severe infection. Keep an eye on Peek, and if any fur stands up or if you notice swelling, get to a vet.
Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

[deguconvert]

They do fight in and out of the cage, in fact the fighting started once we began letting Peek come out onto the floor to play. It was Peek that initiated the fighting then. Reep is the one drawing blood though. Reep was the submissive goo in the first pair, and Peek is definitely the dominant of the babies.

Is there the possibility of jealousy? The two babies were so shy for a long time, it took quite a while to hand train them, so Reep was the one that we always took out for extended out of cage visits. Reep prefers me above all the other humans in our home, but I am also the main trainer for hand training etc. Could he be objecting to the scent of me on Peek?

As to the bites, I guess you could say there is fur standing up. Definitely places where the fur has fallen out around a biten area. We discovered an ear with a bite taken out of it this morning. SO . . . off to see the vet?

If we have to separate them, would Reep do ok on his own as long as we placed his cage in a highly populated location where we can interact with him all the time? If he is so very aggressive with the current companions, will that also translate over to another goo?

We are just heart broken over what is going on with these guys, we just love them so much! Thank you so much for your thoughts and help. We really appreciate you all!

[buzz]

I'm sorry your having such difficulties. A chunk out of the ear does not need a vet as such unless it's looking infected, otherwise theres not a lot the vet can do. I'm not too sure if it's your scent either as Reepicheep would be attacking Snuggabug too. I suggest you try what Jolie said before seperating them but if you do have to seperate remember that Reepicheep has had one companion before and he has also accepted Snuggabug. I don't think he is majorly aggressive, just doesn't like Peep. Its like people, we don't all get along. Degus have long memories and maybe he hasn't forgiven Peek from chasing him around all the time at the beginning of the introductions... degus can hold a grudge. So, I think if it were me, I'd get a companion for Reep if you do seperate them, preferably I'd try to get a lone degu.

BUT. I would definatly try Jolies method before splitting them. If Reep has grown attached to Snugg it may be hard on him loosing 2 companions so quickly? I'm not to sure about that but I thought I'd mention it.

How is Peep in himself.. is he looking completely sorry for himself? Also do they all sleep together sometimes?

[deguconvert]

Peek looks terrible. He and Snug will sleep together, and really get along well. They are loving brothers. But when I put him in the cage after a visit, he goes to the back wall and just sits there. He looks as if he is afraid to move, as though he is just waiting for the next attack. The fighting isn't full blown all the time . . . but it is difficult to say what actually brings it on. There is almost always a fight very shortly after they have been taken out for a visit and then put back in. It can break out at any time inside the cage too, and usually for no discernable cause. Out on the floor, it used to be mostly chasing, but the last two nights it has been chasing and fighting. Their fighting isn't just the nose to nose, standing on hind legs, forefeet clutching forefeet back and forth stance. It is martial arts leaping and fast furious physical engagement, with lots of very foul goo language. In talking to a vet this afternoon, she said that if blood is being drawn in the fighting, as it is, there is little hope for peace and they must be separated.
Still, I would really rather have them all together than apart. I will see what I can do about the separation until Peek is healed. At this point, he isn't eating very well, and he is less inclined to bathe than he used to be. We noticed this morning that he is now the smallest of all our goos, and I can't help but wonder if that is due to being shoved away from the food dishes. I am going to put in another one and see if having three in there will help. Are they very possesive of their sleeping places too? We have one soft cushy little thing that they all really like, but can't all sleep in. I was thinking about getting two more so that there is lots to choose from. Do you think that would help too? I need to run, which is probably good, lol!! All these questions I have! When will anyone actually have the time to answer them all? LOL!

Thank you so very much for your kind interest and empathy!

[buzz]

It sounds like Peep is being affected mentally. Degus aren't usually possesive of sleeping places no, they like to snuggle together, I'd be inclined to get a larger sleeping area as well as some smaller areas so they have a choice to sleep all together or not, but with Reep acting the way he does towards Peep it does seem like they need seperation. If they are staying together use more food bowls or scatter the food and see if that helps.

What did the vet say?

[jolie]

poor goos. I would remove Reep, and consider putting him in a separate cage but close beside the others so they can still (sort of) interact with each other. See how Peep's mental and physical health becomes after a few weeks. He should bulk up a bit if the others are pushing him away from the food dishes. Try getting one food dish for each goo, that way, once Reep is in a separate cage, Snug doesn't try to be the dominant one while Peep is healing. I would get more snuggly cushy things- just because. It's nice to have one for everybody.
As for bites: the bacteria in a degu's mouth can start a really bad infection when introduced into a wound from biting. If a degu cuts itself on whatever, no big deal; but a bite wound can very quickly become infected, and a run on antibiotics is no fun for a degu. Really watch for swelling. The ear is not a huge concern, but keep an eye on it, still. Good luck with this! :]