laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 14, 2023 9:00:22 GMT
The answer from the vet was to restart the same treatment (P now runs to me when she hears the pop of the medical vial... She knows she is getting a crock) and to look for the cause as she believes something in the cage is irritating P's mouth.
Current suspects : new wooden wheel and new hay.
I cancelled my trip to see my bf's grandma to keep an eye on P. I just hope it'll be solved by the 31st because I need to go elsewhere...
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 18, 2023 18:27:01 GMT
To keep you guys updated, I went back to the vet as P was still drooling a lot even though she was on medication.
After checking, we realize it's not a mouth issue, but her lips are hurt and bloody. She was given a painkiller shot and we changed her antibiotics.
She will be given a dose that will last 8 days, twice a day. on top of that, I'll try to put the mouth cream on her lip... And she is probably gonna hate me for it.
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 18, 2023 20:31:39 GMT
I hope this works, good luck with the cream.
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 20, 2023 9:34:21 GMT
Hi everyone,
So I've been trying my best to put the cream on my degu as she struggles. Due to that, the cream ends up all over her, but I'm assuming that's gonna be it.
My issue, however, is that due to the treatment change, I have had a hard time with croc. But that's the easy part, letting the 0.33 ml of medicine sink into the croc.
The issue is P has been refusing to eat the croc...
Is there any other option to help ?
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Post by moletteuk on Dec 20, 2023 12:05:05 GMT
That's a lot of medicine to hide, especially as it probably tastes bad.
I think your options are to split it over more than one crock, or to directly syringe feed the meds, you would probably need to restrain her to do this, most people find the best way to do this is to 'burrito' her, ie wrap in a large cloth.
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Post by savvy on Dec 20, 2023 14:48:44 GMT
Alternatively, if you're struggling to wrap her, try containing her in a travel case, filling the syringe and offering it to her and putting it in her mouth. Most degus will try bite the end, when she does this, squirt!
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 21, 2023 15:59:01 GMT
So, i have been forced to syringe to her mouth while holding her captive with a towel.
She has gotten very wary of food, to the point of ignoring a meadow loop or a croc. She did take a sunflower seed, but I doubt putting it in the medicine would help.
I might try the travel case, but she has been very uncooperative... It does break my heart to hear her whine while I treat her, but no choice.
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Post by savvy on Dec 21, 2023 16:34:44 GMT
Hard as it is, sometimes you have to use tough love to get them to take their meds.
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Post by bouncy on Dec 22, 2023 11:53:10 GMT
You can also try preparing the croc in advance. I used to make a hole in one using a corkscrew, then slowly add meds so it soaked in gradually. By the time they got it, there was no sign of medication! Alternatively, if you have any critical care, you can add them to some of this.
If you're not successful with the cream, you could try some high quality manuka honey. Yes, there may be some lip licking, but it does wonders on wounds!
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 26, 2023 12:46:44 GMT
Facepalm.
I swear, she did everything to make things harder for me. On the LAST DAY of treatment, P started biting the syringe.
EIGHT DAYS OF HATRED AND HARDSHIP TO GET TO THERE ON THE LAST DAAAAAY, aaaaah. I will call the vet for a followup tomorrow because monitoring.
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Post by teemu on Dec 26, 2023 16:19:37 GMT
Of course she's totally up for it when it ends You've done really well to get it done regardless. Hopefully that will be the end of it. For future reference, I found that the easiest way to get a syringe into the mouth is to approach from the side, basically diagonally, so that you don't run into the incisors or the molars (there's a large gap between the two). You have to kind of make a hooking motion to actually get it inside the mouth since the cheek can get in the way, but after you get the hang of it, it's really hard for them to actually shake it off. In case you had a lot of trouble with the struggling. Another tip I've found is really good for general calm is to signal it clearly when it's time to do it. It will mean you have to chase them, but if there's a clear signal, they will not be wary outside that time and seem to hold much less of a grudge about it. For me, it was putting on the glove I used to catch them. Though this may not be all that relevant for a short period. Interestingly, some degus also just seem to realize over time that it's easiest to just take the d**n medicine and be done with it. I've had two that just seemed to give up after a time and actually just opened their mouths after getting caught. But yeah, hopefully that'll be the end of it!
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Dec 30, 2023 11:56:55 GMT
So... Degu is still drooling. Conclusion is it's probably an allergy that keeps doing this.
P has lost some weight, but I think it's because she stopped having croc. She still eats and poops.
We're going to go on a woodless journey now to check if it's wood-based allergy. And last resort would be a biopsy.
Still checking on her overall and going on. P is still very lovely and doesn't seem to be suffering too much.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 2, 2024 11:42:18 GMT
I'm a little bit concerned that the vet is considering such a wildly different cause now, wood allergy sounds a bit weird. It may be worth considering a second opinion if you have any doubts. Anyway, I hope the wood free experiment is going OK.
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Jan 18, 2024 21:50:36 GMT
To be honest, I think I explain myself a bit poorly. The vet seems pretty competent to me, but P has been a bit up and down with her infection.
Basically, P had a blisters all over the inside of her mouth, which led the vet to believe she either had a teeth issue or a possible infection that caused her to have blisters. She used anesthesia to treat the blisters and put P under antibiotics and painkillers.
As soon as the treatment stopped, P seemed to be drooling again, so we prolonged the treatment a bit.
Then, P wasn't eating too well. So the vet asked to see her again but this time, no issue in the inside of her mouth. So the vet showed me the swollen lips and told me it might just be that it was painful and P didn't enjoy it. So we changed the treatment to the cream hoping her lip will get better. She mentioned it could also be an allergy, so I should take out anything "new".
Sadly, she was still drooling a bit after and I was going to see my parents for the New Year (couldn't bring them, my mom is allergic). I went to see the vet one last time to decide if I should cancel. The vet considered that it might be an allergy, since P seems to remain sick throughout the use of antibiotics. We continued with the allergy possibility and moved out more things out of the cage. The vet also thought we should stop antibiotics a bit to give P a bit of a break (prolonged used of antibio wasn't great too so...). Since the vet didn't seem overly worried (and to be honest, at this point, I was persuaded P was gonna be alright), we chose to pay a professional petsitter to come and give P her painkiller and check on her eating. (Just in case) On the last two days, though, P seems to have trouble eating her treat. Due to the fact it was late saturday, I couldn't get a vet anyway and decided to call for the vet for the first available appointment for P on Monday. When I came home, I noticed P seemed to have lost some weight.
P's blisters had returned and the vet put her under again. This time, a bacterial swab and a biopsy to have a complete picture of the situation. After that, the vet also kept M & P (M definitely HATED having to keep her sister company, but P would have been scared shitless if M wasn't there) for the night to check on her energy, pain and poop.
It seems P is doing well under antibiotics so we are thinking it might be a tricky bacteria. Either way, I'm waiting on the results to tell us if it's an infection, a bacteria or even an allergy. P has regained the weight she lost during the New Year and seems to be eagerly waiting for her treat (with medicine) every time I come in. I think she is a lot better every time the vet treats her mouth (like, while she is under) and she seems a lot friendlier due to me spoiling her with treats to regain her weight.
I guess I'm the only one having such issues ? Did anyone have something similar happen ?
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Post by teemu on Jan 19, 2024 17:59:46 GMT
It does sound like a really confusing and stubborn issue. I haven't really seen anything like that myself. It's good that it hasn't (so far) affected her basic well-being too harshly, but it would be good to find out what's going on. Hopefully the lab results give some insight into it.
Blisters in the mouth might be due to any number of reasons, as such. Allergic, viral, bacterial, even fungal. Since it's coming and going, it's probably not topical (caused by some acute and direct damage to the area), except if something is causing it to re-occur. But it sounds like you've been going through everything quite thoroughly. And I guess since it's affecting her more so than anything else, and M isn't having the same issues, it's probably not some contagious infection either. The only thing that really fits that that I can think of quickly is an allergy, or indeed something topical (infection due to irritation of the mouth, for example). Very strange.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 19, 2024 19:06:32 GMT
Thanks, the recap helps me get it all straight in my mind, and I can follow the thinking of the vet now, and it seems logical.
Right at the start my immediate instinct was that it was likely to be a bacterial infection and that it might be difficult to get it to fully heal. I must be basing this on (multiple?) experiences from the forum, but no particular case springs to mind, and a search for mouth+blisters hasn't produced anything. Infections in the mouth just seem tricky to fully get rid of, and degus can end up on antibiotics for weeks, or very occasionally more or less indefinitely. You should be in the best possible position when the labs come back on the swab and biopsy, this was a good move from the vet to escalate the investigations at this point.
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Post by moletteuk on Jan 19, 2024 19:09:18 GMT
OK, I've looked through a few pages of search results and I think found the case that was in the back of my mind: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21239/sherlocks-teeth-mouth-issues?page=3I've only had time to read the first few pages but the cellulitis on page 3 with a couple of different bacteria sounds like it might be relevant for you. Ntg was trying topical antiseptics and mouthwash type things for a while and then two different antibiotics at once. See top of p8 for biopsy result.
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laiyah
Burrowing Degu
Posts: 181
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Post by laiyah on Jan 26, 2024 12:48:58 GMT
Ok, so the results are in.
Apparently, it started as an irritation and it got infected with a staphylococcus, which the body tried to fight and caused blisters in the mouth and it kept going in circle.
I have to keep P on antibiotics for a full month to ensure no staphylococcus survive and check on her digestive flora. (No liquid poo, please)
And then she'll go back to see the vet.
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Post by teemu on Jan 26, 2024 21:54:46 GMT
That seems like it would explain a lot. Hopefully a long antibiotics regimen will kill it off for real. I've had degus on long antibiotics before, and it's generally not affected them too roughly, so hopefully P will be okay as well.
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Post by bouncy on Feb 8, 2024 16:40:54 GMT
I'm glad you're finally getting somewhere!
And definitely no to the liquid poo - it really stinks, and it's a pain to clean off fur lol
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