Degu dental problems + food stuck on lip

[cincinnutnut]

Hi everyone, I'm new here! I have two degus (Nutmeg/Nutnut and Cinnamon/Cincin) both aged almost 3 years old. Cincin has been having a lot of problems with her mouth/teeth and has given me a lot of stress. Here's some background info:

Cincin has always been a bit of a drooler when she sleeps, so we didn't think much of it at first. But when we came back home from a 1-2 day trip to see family (the degus didn't come with us), we noticed she lost a lot of weight. Upon examining her, we also found a cut on her top left lip. She wasn't eating, and was a bit less energetic but otherwise looked fine. We took her to the vet, and he said her teeth were too long and he trimmed them, gave her pain meds and antibiotics. This happened about two more times, about every 6 weeks (the weight loss never got as bad as it did the first time though, because we caught issues earlier). She would cut her lip every time too. Because of the cut in her lip, she would constantly get food stuck in it, which would make the cut worse because she would pick at it. 

Fortunately, we haven't had to take her to the vet in over 6 weeks! She's been eating great, her teeth still look short enough, and she has awesome weight (same as Nutnut). However, she still has a cut on her upper left lip (she had picked at a scab there, causing it to open again). She has been getting SO much food stuck in that cut, to the point where currently she has food literally dangling from her lip; from far, she looks like an anteater. She has trouble cleaning her mouth/teeth herself, but I think it's more trauma/fear than pain because once the food is out, her cut doesn't seem to bother her at all. I would try to take it out myself, but she doesn't let me, and it's so stuck there that it's really hard for me to do it when she's wiggling around. It seems like she either works up the courage to do it herself, or Nutnut does it for her. 

Anyways, all that to say that I'm worried about the amount of food that is stuck this time; I worry she won't be able to take it out and it will affect her eating (she's still eating okay right now). I also worry that when she does take it out, it'll leave a HUGE cut. I also don't know how to prevent her from getting so much food stuck and this happening again. Anyone else experience this with their degu?

[moletteuk]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Do you think the cut just hasn't healed or could there be a tooth or something still catching it? Could it be infected? I think I would get some cooled boiled water with some salt in and soak the lip with cotton wool dipped in the salt water to try and free off the food.

We tend to recommend checking over the diet for degus needing dental work, check there is plenty of calcium in the diet (at least 1% in pellets), feed as much mixed forage as you can, cut out grains and you could consider adding in a vitamin d supplement.

[cincinnutnut]

Dec 5, 2022 17:54:15 GMT moletteuk said:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Do you think the cut just hasn't healed or could there be a tooth or something still catching it? Could it be infected? I think I would get some cooled boiled water with some salt in and soak the lip with cotton wool dipped in the salt water to try and free off the food.

We tend to recommend checking over the diet for degus needing dental work, check there is plenty of calcium in the diet (at least 1% in pellets), feed as much mixed forage as you can, cut out grains and you could consider adding in a vitamin d supplement.

Hi, I don't think it's a tooth that is actively still cutting her. It used to be her bottom teeth causing cuts, but I saw her do this one. She had a scab from a previous cut that healed, and I watched her take her back paw and pick it out, reopening the cut. This is the cut that she keeps getting food stuck in. I don't think it's infected - it's just red, and either looks dry like a scab or more fresh, but never anything gross. Just red and a bit of blood when fresher. 

She managed to get that really big piece of food out last night (phew!) but still has some chunks there, but it looks more like her normal food stuck in mouth situation now. She did lose a little bit of weight but is still within her individual normal range (she's always been a smaller degu at 200-215g, Nutnut is 210-215g). I'll try the water and salt trick, though I doubt she'll let me. I touched the food today and she nipped me and squirmed out of my hands.

As for diet, I don't think that's the problem - she has the same diet as Nutnut, and Nutnut's teeth are amazing. They've got pellets that I checked all the nutritional information and compared with Degutopia, many different foraging mixes with hay, flowers, and dried veggies (they have a foraging bowl that we always keep filled which is mostly hay and flowers, and they have a hay mat that we add a foraging mix to that is mostly dried veggies once a week), and they get fresh veggies here and there, along with the occasional oats, dried pasta, rice puffs, etc.

Cincin refuses to chew on much. We finally found a lava rock and an apple-shaped hay block type thing that she's been enjoying, so I think that's helping keep her teeth short enough. Her bottom teeth look slightly crooked compared to Nutnut's, so I think it's more of a genetic issue + not chewing enough. 

[deguconvert]

Hello Cincinnutnut! Welcome to the forum!

The teeth that have been trimmed . . . are they the incisors? Has the vet also had to trim her molars with each of the dentals he has performed?

It is possible that her dental issues have a genetic component to them, which would make her more prone to trouble. However, her diet will still figure largely in the severity of growth and frequency of treatments. Vit D is a crucial component in dental health, as is the chewing of high fiber foods. In the wild they eat a lot of dried forage which consists largely of seed, leaves, grasses, and twigs. If you can find some products that she can't resist, it will help her to chew more and wear down her teeth to keep the growth in check. Here are two links, one about how to feed a more natural diet, and one to a food chart that gives detailed information about the nutritional content of the listed foods.

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

ALSO this edible plants list deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15335/edible-plants-list

[cincinnutnut]

Dec 6, 2022 21:55:25 GMT deguconvert said:

Hello Cincinnutnut! Welcome to the forum!

The teeth that have been trimmed . . . are they the incisors? Has the vet also had to trim her molars with each of the dentals he has performed?

It is possible that her dental issues have a genetic component to them, which would make her more prone to trouble. However, her diet will still figure largely in the severity of growth and frequency of treatments. Vit D is a crucial component in dental health, as is the chewing of high fiber foods. In the wild they eat a lot of dried forage which consists largely of seed, leaves, grasses, and twigs. If you can find some products that she can't resist, it will help her to chew more and wear down her teeth to keep the growth in check. Here are two links, one about how to feed a more natural diet, and one to a food chart that gives detailed information about the nutritional content of the listed foods.

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/16425/degu-feeding-guide

deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15602/vegetable-seed-nut-nutrition-charts

ALSO this edible plants list deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15335/edible-plants-list

Thanks! Only the incisors had to be done, mainly the bottom ones. It's been nearly 2 months since we last had to take her, and she's still doing awesome other than the food stuck in her teeth/lip. She LOVES flowers/plants, and is doing pretty good at eating her pellets too. She just refuses to chew on wood (whereas Nutmeg chews on wood ALL day). She's also learning that if she wets her mouth with the water bottle, it's easier to get the food out, so I think that's helping too. Now that the food has been cleared out better, I can see her lips more clearly; it looks like she has almost like a cleft lip, where her top lips cover way less of her teeth than Nutmeg's do. 

[moletteuk]

Have her molar teeth been properly inspected? The vet should use an otoscope, which is handheld magnifying instrument, to look in the mouth to see the rear teeth. If the incisors need trimming then the molar teeth nearly always need trimming too. Depending on the vet and degu, the vet may need to sedate the degu to properly view the molars, and sedation or anaesthetic would be needed to trim the molar teeth.

[cincinnutnut]

Okay guys I'm really scared now, she was getting a chunk of food off her lip and I think she took a chunk OF HER LIP off... It's not bleeding, but it's pink and definitely does not look normal.

[moletteuk]

I think a vet needs to take a closer look at this.

Also see my comments about molar teeth inspection. If you have any doubts about your vet, ring round and see if you can find a more experienced one.

[bouncy]

Any update?

If things are sticking to the wound, it's possibly an abscess or a wound that hasn't healed. Definitely vet (and possibly antibiotic intervention) needed!

My vet swears by medical grade manuka honey for wound healing. I've even had to slather it on a goo penis. I've told him it just gets licked away, but he says it doesn't matter.

[cincinnutnut]

Hi, sorry, I haven't been on here in a while. She's doing a lot better now! She's eating great, super active, no more bleeding almost ever. She's still a lower weight than I'd like but it doesn't fluctuate and she's CRAZY active and eating well so I think she's just a small goo. She still gets food stuck once in a while but she cleans it herself and there's no wound after.

[yasmin]

Thanks for the update.

[deguconvert]

This is an AWESOME update!! Thank you for letting us know!

[bouncy]

Hooray!