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Post by Xellie on Aug 3, 2021 20:53:56 GMT
possibly related: Bryn showing stress related behaviours prior to everything starting to get nasty.
Choca and Bryn renewed their old rivalry. Some pretty vicious chasing, I think I managed to split them before anyone got hurt.
On the same day, Mist and Mocha also started fighting. Both of them got a scratch or two (just the ones I can see).
So in a split cage setup, I put Bryn and Mocha one one side and the other 4 on the other. Bryn has been stripping the fur off everyone's faces (except Mocha) so I wanted to see if she stopped when moved away from them. She's still pulling fur off her paws though.
Mocha and Bryn bicker a little when they see Choca through the divider, but seem pretty settled right now.
Mocha is very angrily patrolling the divider chasing anyone else away (Mist isn't quite as bothered, sometimes she engages back but she mostly ignores it). Choca runs up and down sometimes being aggressive to both Bryn and Mocha. She has also been projectile peeing on the other goos.
They've been split since Friday. I've been blocking off the divider so they can't see each other on the really bad days. Today seemed fairly calm so I tried the playpen.
First I tried with everyone except Choca. All was well for about 5 mins, then Mocha and Mist started to get into something far worse than anything I've seen out of the other two. I think it was pretty close to FBOD.
So I returned Mist to the cage (she was the first one I could catch) and then I let them calm down a bit.
Choca and Bryn launched at each other, so they were quickly separated.
I'm a bit worried this one might be irredeemable. I know they need time to get over their grudges... I'm not sure if I should let them talk through the divider or hide them from each other to calm down.
As I'm writing this I looked over to see Bryn pulling Mocha's fur.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 3, 2021 20:54:55 GMT
Oh and Banshee is being pretty nasty (but not harmful) to anyone that crosses his path. The difference is, putting Banshee in an hour or so timeout makes him calm down for a few days. This started at the same time too.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 4, 2021 20:06:19 GMT
WOW!! So the whole gang is really topsy-turvy!! Well . . . your girls are in the right age bracket to be experiencing adolescent/domination turmoil and fighting. All the girls are pretty evenly matched so I'm not surprised that there are at least three that are in the thick of the dispute. It could be a while before this gets settled, even 2-3 months or more, but don't despair that it is hopeless.
I'm truly sorry, Xellie! It is a hard thing to go through, especially when they have been so lovely together from the get go! We are here to help you and cheer you on!! They will get it worked out and be all the more stable on the other side.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 4, 2021 20:27:59 GMT
Choca has been bullying Freya all day too! Although it's nasty, it's not FBOD vicious and I haven't seen any injuries. There's been kicking and chasing and slamming, but they've been very chatty throughout it, and it's broken up by periods of them laying flat on the ground next to each other, with a little grooming and talking.
Taking Choca away from the conflict does not calm her down the same way as it calms Banshee.
I've kept the barricade up today so the groups can't see each other, I figure tempers need to cool off a little longer before they can go back to interacting, especially with Choca taking it out on Freya.
Mocha and Bryn haven't bickered today at all, they are very calm.
Bryn's hairpulling has extended to her back legs and front legs, she looks a bit like a plucked turkey!
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Post by savvy on Aug 4, 2021 20:29:11 GMT
This sounds like at least one of them is on heat.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 4, 2021 20:31:44 GMT
Unfortunately, you've got a load of goos who are all going through their hormonal, teenage years, so you'll likely get more squabbles than you're used to. They're not just dealing with hormones, but their squabbles for a higher place in the pecking order. Sorry!
Banshee's behaviour, particularly after some time out, suggests he's getting frustrated with the resulting chaos around him. Sounds like he's got quite a long fuse for a degu!
Not to mention a bunch of girls with PMT.....
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Post by Xellie on Aug 4, 2021 20:34:20 GMT
This sounds like at least one of them is on heat. This is the assumption I'm working on, and I'm trying to give them space to not upset each other too much to cause grudges. I wondered if it was prompted by the change in weather to be honest - they all seem to have come into this together, and the lines are drawn between different goos in the group.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 4, 2021 20:35:41 GMT
They do say that girls in the same household tend to synchronise their cycles?
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Post by Xellie on Aug 4, 2021 20:42:58 GMT
So I'm not sure if I should continue giving the two groups a break from each other, since one group is settled and the other is manic, or take the block down so they can talk.
The divider I have is 2 side panels from the spare part of cage about 8cm apart. When they bicker through it too much I slide some card in so they take time out.
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Post by bouncy on Aug 4, 2021 23:16:36 GMT
If they're not injuring each other more than a couple of ear nicks, I'd be tempted to remove the division and let them sort it out themselves. If they are on heat, just wait a couple of days more?
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Post by Xellie on Aug 5, 2021 0:00:27 GMT
If they're not injuring each other more than a couple of ear nicks, I'd be tempted to remove the division and let them sort it out themselves. If they are on heat, just wait a couple of days more? I let them see each other for a while. Mocha and Bryn went between laying flat next to the bars and basically popcorning to chase the other degus around on the division before turning on each other. So, In the morning I will keep the divider so they can see each other and see how we go. Choca got pretty badly hurt last time this happened a few months ago. But I'm concerned at the way Mist and Mocha balled up and sent fur flying.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 7, 2021 16:56:24 GMT
Seems like it's getting worse not better. This is so upsetting. I've kept the divider so they can't see each other for now.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 7, 2021 19:29:57 GMT
Sometimes that really is the best thing you can do. You need to be able to keep your sanity as well.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 14, 2021 16:16:07 GMT
I'm letting bryn vs Choca play out in the play pen, keeping mocha in isolation because mist vs Mocha is still vicious.
There's some boxing and a little kicking, but it's not sustained. Fingers crossed they figure it out.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 14, 2021 16:53:41 GMT
I took them out when Bryn got a scratch on her lip. Choca seems to have a scratch under her eye but won't let me look. Everyone is sulking in the cage now.
The fighting between them seems to die off for a bit, then they ignore each other and it all kicks off again. Freya, mist, kara all hide when they start.
I think going forward I will separate them during the good behaviour so they associate that with the playpen rather than bad.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 17, 2021 12:51:49 GMT
Hope this is going OK Xellie and if not improving that you at least sound like you are figuring out how to deal with it.
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Post by Xellie on Aug 17, 2021 21:42:42 GMT
I'm keeping the barricade so they can see each other now and it seems to be slowly petering out. They're still mad and it sparks up sometimes, but mocha isn't doing circuits screaming anymore.
I like to document this here too not just for advice, but if I do get through it, hopefully the process helps someone else.
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Post by Xellie on Sept 1, 2021 16:04:37 GMT
lost tail aside, the bickering through the divider seems to have stopped. Hopefully I can move on to the playpen stage, but I feel like I should wait until mists tail heals up.
I wonder if I should try to reintroduce them to each other one at a time; so Bryn to the other group first, then mocha.
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Post by deguconvert on Sept 1, 2021 17:20:21 GMT
In situations where the introductions involve multiple degus . . . you have to start somewhere, and the question of "where" is always a little daunting. You know your degus, as well as a human can, so go with what you are thinking, and be ready to adjust as needed. Think of it as . . . tying cargo onto the back of an odd shaped vehicle. It can be done . . . but you will often have to tweak the straps that are holding things in place, possibly change the location of items, check often as you travel, make sure no straps are unraveling, have backup straps with you, (I'd say "have lots of treats on hand," but that doesn't match the word picture at all, LOL!), be OK with taking a break when you or the "cargo" are weary, and be comfortable with going with the flow. You may have to be very creative at times. Eventually, you, your vehicle, and the "cargo" will all get where you intend to arrive. It doesn't have to look pretty, the point is to get from your starting point to your end destination. We will be onlookers as it were, but we are here for your support and encouragement!!
You're a great degu mum . . . you'll get there.
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Post by winic1 on Sept 1, 2021 17:39:17 GMT
Just don't rush it.
You want them to be BEGGING to get together, not just no longer aggressively refusing.
Patience, patience, patience. Push it too soon, and you'll be back to square one again.
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