|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 17:00:18 GMT
What worked for me last time was splitting the cage in half and letting each group live in a portion for a week at a time. Should I try that at some point?
|
|
|
Post by Xellie on Jul 20, 2021 18:31:00 GMT
Possibly, but not up/down. Only sideways splits.
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jul 20, 2021 18:32:05 GMT
Perhaps offering some food or treats during a playtime outside of the cages would be a helpful thing. More things to interact together with, as Xellie suggests. I wouldn't be putting them in one cage just yet. Do you have their individual cages placed next to each other? My experiences with introductions and re-introductions had to do with rather volatile males for the most part, and these were intros that took from 3 months up to 8 months to be successful. So I am more cautious than is maybe needed in all situations, as I'm sure you have seen.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 19:13:02 GMT
Yes I have their cages next to each other and they can get close enough to touch noses through the bars. I will try to extend their joined playtime and offer more things to interact with together.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 22, 2021 4:05:00 GMT
Should I be allowing them in the big girls cage for 10 minutes at a time? I am just trying to think of the best way to eventually get them to all live together, since I know they have to do dominance mounting to establish the social hierarchy.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 22, 2021 4:06:18 GMT
I mean, I figure that they'll have to definitively establish who's in charge at some point, and I am just trying to figure out the most nonaggresive way to allow them to do that.
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jul 22, 2021 7:42:06 GMT
When they are all out for free roaming play . . . that is shared territory. Their cages however, are very much their own territories, and putting the pups in there at this stage will be seen as an invasion and will raise aggression. You will undo what you have be accomplishing, and there is the potential to make it worse . . . they may form a strong dislike against them as known enemies, rather than just the strangers they currently are.
I strongly recommend against putting them in each others cages. Having their scents mixed so they are familiar is a very different thing from marching into the others cage and having "set your flag" there. You need to see them giving the welcoming signals we have mentioned before. You need to be consistently seeing them. If the older girls are not yet receptive to the pups, acknowledging them, speaking gently, grooming, sitting beside them, humping them, and the pups being equally receptive, then there is not bond forming yet. If they decide to forcefully repel the little ones, they may do so in ways that really harm them.
So, no. Don't do it yet.
|
|
|
Post by moletteuk on Jul 22, 2021 16:35:28 GMT
If you would like to encourage a little more interaction during the free roam intros, then I would introduce some activities like cardboard boxes, tissue paper, twigs, forage or low value scattered food (maybe).
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 22, 2021 21:11:17 GMT
Alright I won't do direct interaction in the cage. What I did see on Degutopia was that horizontal split cages can work, and thats what we did to get our two big girls accustomed to the girl we had before. I know I've been advised against it on here but Degutopia says doing the horizontally split cage works most of the time.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 22, 2021 21:12:00 GMT
And as for playtime I have done food scattering, but the big girls seem to get bored in the play area and start trying to escape after a few minutes
|
|
|
Post by Xellie on Jul 22, 2021 21:14:27 GMT
Trying to escape is a big game, I found that out with my girls.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 22, 2021 21:16:30 GMT
I have started putting in some things for them to climb on. So far they just love the wheel, and the big girls even seem to stop sometimes to let the pups on with them
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 23, 2021 4:41:32 GMT
|
|
|
Post by deguconvert on Jul 23, 2021 6:34:26 GMT
We do not follow that at all. I have been through several introductions, splits, re-introductions, and months of vicious fighting and grudge holding to overcome . . . and I would not follow this guide.
In the wild, the higher the standing of a den of degus within a large colony, the higher up the hill they are. In a cage situation when you have a degu in the upper section of the cage, he/she is in dominant position. Remove that degu from dominant/top position and put another degu, or degus up there, whilst putting the dominant degu in the lower/submissive position . . . you have just created conflict. A gauntlet has been thrown, a challenge for dominance, and the original/dominant degu will now see the new degu(s) as enemies to be ejected or strongly subdued. In a side by side condition . . . they are equals and have the opportunity to get to know each other, and work out their hierarchal positions within the group they are forming. This WILL happen no matter what, because that is how their social structure is . . . but there are ways to mitigate it and work with their characters.
In my first introductions experience, I followed something very similar to this, perhaps it was even this guide. At that point in time, this forum used many Degutopia guides extensively. One adult male, two male pups. I got them together within about 8 days time, and I thought it was AWESOME! Then about two months later I found blood smeared on several surfaces in the cage. I couldn't figure out who it came from because of the density of the fur. I cleaned it up, kept an eye on them, hoping it was an accident not a fight. Two days later more blood. Day after that more blood. I then saw the fighting and learned who was in the battles at least . . . and I immediately bought a new cage separated them, swapping the non-combative male between them. Well . . . over the next 8 months I had to learn a lot about fighting between degus, and that it can take a lot of time, and blood (a lot of it my own) and investigative skills to figure out what they are telling you.
I do not recommend following that guide. We have found that it takes a lot of time . . . not always 8 months like my first, often it is shorter, but sometimes it is a lot more. Have you read our fighting and introductions guides?
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 23, 2021 14:26:39 GMT
Alright, I’ll just keep trying the side by side cages. What else should I do to help encourage them to interact through the bars more? Also when should I try letting them in the same cage together?
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 23, 2021 14:31:16 GMT
Also could I get a link to those guides?
|
|
|
Post by Xellie on Jul 23, 2021 15:06:04 GMT
How are they behaving in neutral territory at the moment? When I did my boy pups intro, one of them was a real drama queen, he squealed and screamed like he was being murdered, but actually nothing bad was happening!
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 23, 2021 15:19:30 GMT
For the most part during playtime they ignore each other, just taking turns running on the wheel. Sometimes the pups will go to the adults and sniff them like they want to interact but the big girls mainly ignore them. I have noticed that when taking turns on the wheel, the big girls will sometimes notice the pups wanting to get on with them, and sometimes they will allow this, and I've noticed Pudge (the less dominant big girl) mainly will actually slow down her running speed when the pups are on with her. Cookie on the other hand will run at top speed resulting in the pups jumping off.
|
|
|
Post by Xellie on Jul 23, 2021 15:32:18 GMT
That sounds pretty good to me - that behaviour on the wheel happens in established groups too lol.
you could try them in the cage, but you'd have to keep an eye on it very closely and be ready to separate. Put some of the babies toys in there too and mix everything up so there is a harmony of smells.
|
|
|
Post by degusinfl on Jul 23, 2021 15:36:25 GMT
Thats what I've done once, and the big girls chase the pups around and 'box' them, but no biting or hair pulling or ball of death. I read online that the boxing and chasing is because the big girls are basically testing the pups to see where they will fall in the social hierarchy, and that it is advised to not separate them during this time (unless the fighting escalates) since they need to do this to establish the chain of command.
|
|