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Post by degusinfl on Jul 12, 2021 5:46:50 GMT
We have two 8-9 month old females, Cookie and Pudge, and we recently helped somebody out who needed pups adopted, and adopted two five week old females. I need a little help on properly introducing the two groups to each other. We have the pups in a separate cage next to the main cage, and we've had it that way for a week. Yesterday we attempted to start doing introductions face to face, putting them in a neutral territory first.
They did fine there, so after 10 minutes we moved them to Cookie and Pudge's cage, which Cookie(the dominant girl) didn't seem to like very much. She seemed to be rather upset and aggressive towards the pups, not even trying to mount for dominance either, rather just chasing them around. What are some good ways to start integrating the two pairs and getting them more used to each other? Should I simply continue the neutral territory meetings?
I read online that separating the cage into a top and bottom section and letting each pair live in each section for a week helps a lot, and its how we got Cookie and Pudge to bond with our old degu Dora (who has sadly since passed away), but I'd like any advice I can get.
Also Cookie is the dominant degu, and she always seems to shove Pudge away when its treat time, so I am wondering if that is why she is so harsh on the babies.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 12, 2021 8:10:55 GMT
Don't worry about them shoving each other out of the way for treats. My lot always do it. If they get fed up being pushed, they will go to a different part of the cage to wait.
With the pups, keep them in side to side cages. One of the best ways to know when a face to face is worth trying is watching them interact. Don't put them top and bottom if you can help it. Not only does it make it hard to watch behaviour, but swapping them around is likely to increase problems. Goos won't take kindly to having others in their territory. Also, the top/bottom thing can create more dominance problems.
Instead, just take a couple of handfuls of substrate from each cage and sprinkle it in the other. This will gradually mix their scents. Keep them side to side, gradually moving them closer together. You may come in one morning and find both pairs sleeping next to each other!
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 12, 2021 14:39:33 GMT
The only problem is its difficult for the degus to see each other with the cages I have now, and they don't seem very interested in each other as it is. I'm afraid if I don't try something new the big girls won't ever accept the pups.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 12, 2021 15:47:02 GMT
I've changed the layout of the two cages a bit so now the two groups can see each other and sniff through the bars perfectly. I've also changed some of the toys and bedding and stuff to let them get to know each others scent. I am hoping this works, is there any other advice?
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 12, 2021 16:58:54 GMT
Daily have each pair use the same sand bath, and DON'T change the sand for new sand until they are fully integrated! This will help them to share the same scent and will make them more familiar and acceptable.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 12, 2021 17:00:45 GMT
Give this another week of the swapping of substrate and the shared sand baths, then report what you are seeing so that we can help you with ideas, interpretation of what you are seeing, etc..
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 16, 2021 15:35:16 GMT
Status update, the two groups have lived with the bars of their cage touching and clearly visible to each other for a bit now, and the big girls are more or less ignoring the babies now. I read that this is a good sign since it means they don't see them as a threat to their territory now, and I've been doing the sand baths.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 16, 2021 17:52:53 GMT
It is definitely a step in the right direction. However, not seeing them as a threat doesn't mean that they now see them as welcome. What you ideally want it to hear the soft chortling sounds that are indications of welcome and friendly interactions. Don't rush things, you don't want to create a hostile association between them, and these things can take a fair bit of time to do well. The initial intros are an indication that it could be a while. It is unusual, though not unheard of, for adult degus to express such annoyance toward degus that are so young. You need to give it more time. Four days from your first post about it is a very brief time.
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Post by bouncy on Jul 16, 2021 19:26:12 GMT
I agree it's good that they're not being aggressive at the bars. The ideal view is for the cages to be next to each other, with both groups napping there, or even moving their nests there. It demonstrates their desire to be one family.
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Post by Xellie on Jul 17, 2021 7:39:31 GMT
it took my pups a week of side by side and daily playpen meets - it started off a bit dicey in the play pen, but they got there in the end.
Share the sand bath and swap toys and beds too.
You have to expect some chasing and squealing. So long as its not super aggressive chasing, they should work it out.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 19, 2021 16:12:57 GMT
We've been doing the daily neutral territory introductions now too, and its been going well so far.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 2:08:43 GMT
During the neutral playtimes we usually let them be together about 10 minutes. so far they mostly ignore each other but they'll occasionally pass by each other and do a quick peep. Been making sure to change around toys and bedding between the two groups as well. I'm even starting to see one of the big girls start running on the wheel when one of the babies does.
Should mixed playtime be longer or is 10 minutes good?
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 20, 2021 3:58:15 GMT
At this point in things, I think sticking with 10 minutes is perfect.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 4:06:54 GMT
Alright, 10 minutes it is. Any other advice on integrating them? Also what else should I look for as signs that they are getting along? The big girls have their bed on the top floor and don't seem to be in any mood to change that, so I don't think they will sleep together.
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Post by deguconvert on Jul 20, 2021 4:33:14 GMT
Right now they are mostly ignoring each other, and that means they aren't engaging each other enough (probably just not interested yet) to decide if they are going to have to build a relationship. Happy tweeting and warbling is a good thing, but I think you are a distance away from that. There will likely begin to be some alarm calls, loud barking, chasing and kicking. There will also be some dominance humping.
Happy warbling and sitting next to each other, grooming faces, necks, and shoulders, are good signs. These most often come after the more assertive behaviors listed above.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 15:09:57 GMT
Should I allow them to be in the cage with the big girls for 10 minutes after the 10 minute playtime too?
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 15:11:51 GMT
How can I encourage more positive interactions? I would hate for the big girls to just never want to accept the babies.
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Post by Xellie on Jul 20, 2021 15:31:20 GMT
If they're totally ignoring each other in the playpen, I would start increasing the length of the play dates - don't put the babies in the girls cage until they are sitting together eating or something.
I put treats and the wheel in the playpen to introduce the boys, and they bonded over loving the wheel.
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Post by degusinfl on Jul 20, 2021 15:44:38 GMT
I have noticed them eating at the same time the other group is. I'll try to increase the playdate length
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Post by Xellie on Jul 20, 2021 15:48:24 GMT
Also, (I've done 1 full intro and 1 full reintro) I found that they would fight in the cage. They finally accepted each other when I roughly cleaned the cage (most the substrate, no deep cleaning or washing) then mixing old substrate from the cage with old substrate from the babies. Even if they are getting along well the babies may feel like they're intruding on the older ones territories.
By no means an expert, that was just my experience.
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