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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 16, 2021 21:32:32 GMT
Hello, please can anyone provide me with some hope and or advice...
Poorly Oliver 5yr old, initially presented very weak on back legs not using both front paws. He scoffed easy to eat treats after he must gave been starving. I remembered accidentally hurting his front paws day before.
Vet said likely neurological won't improve gave 0.05ml metacam if no improvement in 2 days kinder to put to sleep. But he made massive improvements, practically made full recovery but 2 weeks later he got claw stuck meaning all his weight on front paws for say 10 seconds while struggle
Then noticed next day he struggle eat again. His left paw difficult bending, like stiff, could put his whole weight on it and his right almost always bent but can use that hand a little to hold food but no real weight bearing. Perhaps uses elbow for balance. The next day he had hurt his left as no weight bearing on it, tucked away.
Different vet optimistic about good recovery, as earlier good recovery. Said could be neurological like disc issue but rest and metacam can heal. Could be arthritis metacam can help.
So he appeared again to make good recovery after 2/3 days but he again hurt self. I'd made ramp but he leaped off. He on 0.10ml metacam been on for a week, advised to keep on 3 months
I put him on one level large cage,
poops small but over 2 days they gotten bigger. Figured pain must be subsiding but still no improvement in using paws. Now lost muscle mass on both shoulders.
He is now in small travel cage for his 2nd night, still not using his front paws. He is active and has heat pad. But his poops small again. Though he does have appetite. Eyes perky
Should I pop him in single level large cage, it has one 1 inch step elevation . It could lift his mood again. There is no ramps. Or does he need to be in travel cage? It's 18inches x 8. It feels cruel. Is there hope yet he could make full recovery?
We are deverstated, we don't know if its been a virus as our 3 year old died suddenly 4 days after Oliver initially improved & got back with her. Prior they were both so healthy and well. Shocked and very worried.
Please can you advise? X
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Post by teemu on Jun 16, 2021 23:16:23 GMT
Hello, sorry to hear about your issues and your loss. I don't think it would be a problem to put him in a larger cage, provided there are no climbing surfaces at all and he couldn't hurt himself by accidentally falling or trying to climb. The only thing you need to be mindful about is that if the bars of the cage are climbable, he might try to do that. So it would be best if the cage bars are vertical, not horizontal. If the cage works for that, do give him space, but observe him carefully in case there's problems. If you suspect a virus or a bacteria or something else, be very careful about cleaning everything that could have come into contact with your younger degu. About his weight and general condition, what have you fed him for now? Have you tried a Critical Care type product? It's an emergency food meant for rodents etc that is a dry powder you mix with water. It's meant for animals in poor health that require energy and easy-to-eat food.
As for his general recovery chances, I'm afraid I can't really comment on that with anything concrete. But if he was making recovery but got worse only after injuring himself, I'd say that seems promising. Try to provide him with things that are easy to eat and a safe environment (like you are doing already), and there's surely hope at least.
If I may ask, were there any signs of what might have caused the other degu's death? Did you notice weird behavior or were there signs as to what the cause might have been? Were they in the same cage or away from each other?
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 16, 2021 23:36:56 GMT
Ditto what Teemu said.
I am interested in your food for him. Can you check through your food and make sure that it smells good, not musty, not moist, nor mouldy? I know that mould that has been ingested can cause neurological issues and damage in dogs and cats, and I'm thinking there are possibilities that it can do likewise with other animals.
Maybe check his original cage and make sure there is no areas of moisture that have moulded as well. Our homes can also be the source of mold growth if there is a water leak, or rising damp, or other things leading to water damage. Is there any sign of mould in the room where you keep the cage?
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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 17, 2021 0:22:14 GMT
Hi thanks for response, he eats pets at home pellets. Albeit not eating now. They are bought bulk but in sealed bags. We may keep in garage but al smell fine.
His cage has had thorough clean just in case. With watered down white vinegar.
He is kept in kitchen/diner, we have a air purifyer now bought a month ago for me really. You don't think black spot mould could be an issue in the air? Its a plant fungus. Its a problem in garden right outside cage if nice day door open!? Also I know it enters air since my kitchen plants get it if door open.
It's a 12 Yr old house no mould but the blinds next to their cage do have bits black mould! Surely air puifyer on allergy setting should sort?
We don't know how daisy died, so unexpected. Almost 3 happy healthy fit. She had collapsed onto a bridge and was cold. I fed Critical care after heat pad she came round a bit. When well enough took her local vet. Her poops small hard she dehydrated despite critcare food I gave. They gave baytril and fluids under skin. I nursed her all day. Too ill for aneasthetic, was taking her to specialist next day.
I worry toxin as she ate some foam from a stool I'd stupidly placed too close to cage. Or did she eat something in play area night before, heard her eat something crunchy but it was gone. She had also got bit stuck in play area too, so had she hurt self!? I'd put sudocrem on her paw to stop Olive fur pull, 1st time, allergy??
Olive at mo is not on critical care as he bad patient. I'm closely monitor poops as I will give if required. He gettjng at min:
Linseed
Millet
Wheat
Oats
Apple sticks
Hay
Sunflower seeds (if mood drops)
Mixed roses marigold dry
Chopped up dandilion root
Pellets- not seen him eat
Couple dried flat peas today
Dried apple leaves
Daisy took ill 4 days after being back with Olive. Joseph our 7year old had started giving them treats but only out of their treat draw but he refuses to wash hands that's why we think bug maybe. Daisy was weak too see struggle to keep back legs together, after she got some strength.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 17, 2021 6:39:02 GMT
The black mould on the blinds ... perhaps you should have that checked to see if it is toxic black mould, or at the least call the vet's to ask them about it. It is known to be dangerous to humans, can cause huge and lasting difficulties, and it can kill pets. The house is quite new, and it would be a terrible shame if mould is present, but new houses can grow mould too. Is there mould around the window edges?
Our one dog is terrible for finding things she shouldn't eat. She once found a bag with a mouldy meat sandwich in it and snarfed it down (left in a school bag through a week of school which I found on cleaning things out. I put it where I thought it was out of reach for appropriate disposal while I took the bag to be washed in the laundry room.). When I returned minutes later, all I found was the plastic bag with smears of mould on it. Shortly after I saw her hind legs trembling and her head was starting to shake. I drove straight to the vet. We got there just in time for them to help her. Had I been an hour later, she likely wouldn't have survived it. The great fear was that it would cause lasting neurological issues, and there did seem to be some for a week or two, but they disappeared.
There must be inflammation that is part of whatever is going on, since the Metacam was helping to sort the severity of the trouble initially, but it sounds like the inflammation may be increasing since the helpful effect is less now. Daisy's symptoms sound very similar, but like it hit her harder and faster.
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 17, 2021 10:28:36 GMT
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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 17, 2021 13:38:07 GMT
Thankyou so much for advice
I will clean windows just in case and keep doors shut, for now to see. The black spot I do treat with chemical free homemade sprays but best be careful as it certainly has not gone completely. Yes the heat is ideal for mould. Fingers crossed.
I'll pop him in bigger flat cage.
And I'll sneek some critical care food into him too xxx
I'll let you know how get on x
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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 18, 2021 21:25:35 GMT
Thankyou for the link I'll try the other critical care feed and stock up on different treats he getting bored of treats.
UPDATE
I popped him in bigger single level night before last. During the next day I'd seen small improvements using his hand better to eat & standing on tall on back legs he actually put both paws against cage like he could use to steady self. He not a climber. I was over moon BUT....
THIS MORNING he didn't seem as active, little slower on back feet still using ok but not leaping so he had overdone it I think.
TONIGHT
He now back in travel cage, think he needs to be forced to slow down.
he is holding his head lower again, still off floor also and his left paw I think is numb. His other paw also seems less usable.
Dr did think poss spinal, he made a good recovery before he had 5 days in travel cage. With tubes etc to chew and heat pad. So as hard as it is I think cruel to be kind? Dr did think with rest and metacam he could recover from spin injury. The worry make me ill. 😟
I've managed to give him 1ml of critical care and water is low for him to reach. My poor baby.
His mood is surprisingly relatively good, wide eyes, grooming yesterday. Obviously not eating as much but keeping active chewing and digging.
ALSO HE HAS FUR PULLED HIS PAWS FOR A YEAR I thought due to house change and new cage mate plus less play time due to both my parents having cancer - but they had a massive 3 story john hopewell cage& plenty to do, I did feel guilty but both had been adopted by us so we were there 2nd home.
It had never caused physical problems. Vet said this could be sign long brewing neurological damage now getting worse.
I remember my old vet (different degus who definitely had nerve damage back paw due to a fall) said licking and pulling can desensitise area make numb. So during Olives 1st recovery I applied sudacream and bitter apple as per degutopia advice. This time as convinced arthritis or injury spine or other I hadn't applied it but I just did, just incase.
I'll get some food into him everything I do metacam x
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 18, 2021 22:33:08 GMT
How long have you had him?
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Post by moletteuk on Jun 19, 2021 19:23:40 GMT
By all means, keep him in whichever cage that seems to work best overall, some degus are better in familiar surroundings others may be calmer and rest better with fewer distractions and everything close by, do whatever seems best.
Spinal seems a bit weird to me because it would need to be a neck issue to affect all four limbs and I wouldn't expect a spinal thing to come and go, but I'm not a vet. It definitely sounds weird to me and the kind of thing where you probably need to wait a few days to see what happens and keep him as comfy as possible in the meantime, which I am sure you are doing.
Fur pulling is honestly very common and quite often doesn't seem to signify much. I would not apply anything to stop him doing it because he will likely still do it and then ingest those things.
I'm sorry you are having such a hard time at the moment, poorly pets and parents is so stressful.
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 20, 2021 19:50:17 GMT
My question may seem strange, as to how long you have had him. I'm just wondering if he came into your home with symptoms of difficulty, or if it is something that has developed since. Not placing blame on either home, previous or yours, just wondering if it is long standing and has been slow moving, or is it new, which helps us know how wide an net to cast when looking for causes. THAT could be impossible to answer.
I agree with Moletteuk that a spinal injury seems unlikely, since all four limbs have such different degrees of impairment. It is also something that has been helped with metacam, and as I said before, metacam being an anti-inflammatory, it could be that knowing that might give us clues.
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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 21, 2021 14:16:22 GMT
Just lost 20min message reply!
So in nutshell
Get lots new food n hay variety loves crock
His back paws fine, initially weak from lack food
Hand feeding now as needed
Hurt hus neck pulling wedged in sticks now removed
Now walking head low again but can lift it otherwise when chewing. Been active.
Unsure but day b4 yesterday metacam may missed mouth hadn't thought so but damp on blanket
Needed lots cuddles yesterday, seems perkier today.
Cage now very dark encourage rest.
Been hand feeding will continue as lost weight
No foisty smells. Bin had been open months broke.now sorted. I can pop him in living room if helps can keep tv low? Windows cleaned months ago in here.
Perfect fit blinds in kitchen, worried release lots spores on removing!
Was very worried yesterday but not as much today as active when I came down lots chewing. Munched crock readily! I'll still hand feed keep strength and moral up.
Had him 4/5 years lived here 2 years.
Vet said inflammed spine injury can mend on metacam. Daisy and him did small battle over treats, she would knock him off ledge if could despite them having their own treat ledges. Small drop . I only saw it once.
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Post by bouncy on Jun 21, 2021 15:13:13 GMT
That's good news! Metacam is a great anti-inflammatory, as well as pain relief. The secret is to maintain. The first dose helps, the second and subsequent doses have a compound effect, helping stay on top of the pain. There's nothing wrong with continuing hand feeding/critical care to aid weight gain. I used to do it a lot with my particular little dude. I mixed in ground almonds with the cc, which is calorie dense  |
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Post by deguconvert on Jun 21, 2021 17:41:57 GMT
Ah . . . inflamed spinal injury . . . well . . . spines are complex and the way a body responds is also complex. I'll not argue with your vet! Keep up the great work!! You are definitely moving in the right direction and he is being helped!
Thank you for the above information!
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Post by spiceysugar on Jun 22, 2021 10:58:35 GMT
Thankyou for support, I'll let you know how he goes and add some ground nuts to mix, good idea.
Xxx
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