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Post by degunewbie on Mar 11, 2021 20:12:04 GMT
Hi guys,
It's official, Sarah is getting a new buddy on tuesday or thursday next week! And I'm very excited. I've read about the pairing strategy, and RSPCA have been really good in explaining it too, with expectations. I know the new degu (I went with the single female with an eye issue, for those who have read my previous post) might not get on with sarah, and am prepared for that, but still the whole process I will try to make as smooth as possible.
But just in preparation, I wondered if any of you could share your pairing experiences and how it goes down too. To moderate my expectations of what will happen, I especially want to know about how often they fight. So as you put them in a neutral environment, should I expect that the first time will be difficult and I separate them early. And then the next time, the next time, and the time after that.
I understand you put them in together for a bit at a time as they get used to each other. What are good indicators, and what are bad?
Also, for those who have read my previous posts, Sarah is healthy as anything right now. Her cough/sneeze literally vanished when I changed her back to carefresh. I was a bit surprised as I didnt expect that substrate would make SUCH a difference so quickly. Also, pleasingly, it might be in my head, but from my perspective her teeth have gotten more orange since I got her. Today especially, she leaned up to get a treat and I realised how orange they got. She was in a healthy condition when I got her, but I think she is just getting even better... but this might be my imagination, and me looking to read things (I've always been conscious looking at her teeth each day).
Thanks all, any advice I'd really appreciate
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2021 20:15:36 GMT
I will come back. Have to head out on a walk.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 11, 2021 20:19:39 GMT
Thanks deguconvert! No rush, I've got many days to prepare. I am very excited to start the journey is all. Even if Mary isnt the right one for Sarah (though I hope she will be) I know we will find her a friend
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Post by savvy on Mar 11, 2021 20:34:35 GMT
The best advice I can give is let them set the pace, it may take a while, and that could be months. Degus don't always like to be rushed.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 11, 2021 20:39:49 GMT
Thanks Savvy. That concerns me a little, because does that mean I could need to keep the cage divided for months? I wouldnt want to deprive space of either. Or can I integrate the space but it will take a while for them to get fully used to each other, and then I separate them for an hour or day or so, if they do have a fight?
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Post by savvy on Mar 11, 2021 20:45:21 GMT
You will need to keep they cages side by side for the best results. Some degus can bond really quickly, a matter of weeks, others take their time.
You will need to watch their body language, but let them meet in a neutral area, swap substrate between the cages, let them both use the same sand bath, but don't clean it! Their scents need to mingle so they form one uniform group scent.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 11, 2021 20:55:01 GMT
That's good to know, I was actually thinking about the sand bath situation, thinking I should get another bath. But I will keep it the same now. Hmm, it's possible to separate the 2 layers of the cage to go somewhat side by side in the space. I hope they get along faster though, because it would reduce their overall space significantly (I dont have another cage, except the rspca are lending me a smaller cage to assist in putting them in a neutral ground to meet). On the plus Sarah is confident to come out and wants to jump out to the room now, but I just havent got round to preparing that space to make it degu friendly. I'll prioritise that, and sort it tomorrow, so then they have the extra space if they take longer to get used to each other.
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Post by deguconvert on Mar 11, 2021 22:30:04 GMT
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 12, 2021 13:37:43 GMT
The aim is always to get them together with minimal or no fighting and the best way to achieve that is with time.
So, you want to leave new girl to settle for a few days and then you can start mixing substrate and sharing sandbath. What are your housing plans? Is it a Liberta Explorer type cage that is going to be split? Ideally you want them safely separate, with just one meeting point where they are on the same level and divided by mesh (double layer if there is any aggression). Then you watch and wait and report back to us what you see. You are looking for them being relaxed or hanging out together calmly or even ignoring each other.
When they are relaxed through the mesh you can try a meet in a neutral area, and depending on how it goes that would be for a short period of time. You need to observe this very carefully and we can help you interpret if necessary. Sometimes the neutral area puts them on edge and then you can try a familiar space to one of them for the meet.
Depending on how it goes you repeat the meets until you are confidant they can stay together.
Every into is different and the time required varies wildly.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 14, 2021 0:15:52 GMT
Thanks guys, So with my cage, it's this one www.petplanet.co.uk/p28577/rat_and_ferret_cage_by_petplanet.aspx?ptm_source=google&ptm_medium=shopping&ptm_campaign=over50_68616&campaign=439957091&adgroup=33472599131&keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAiA4rGCBhAQEiwAelVti7hlLG-AknkWlpwidEkOtSxBLB4WWSFhExVYCvElTC9_VzaMiKfqXhoCY9wQAvD_BwEI am thinking I can separate it, by moving the top half to my desk next to the cage so they get a bit more visibility. Although this would only be about 10 cm max of visibility side by side. I would cap the bottom cage with cardboard and zip wires and take the top cage off with the metal bottom divide (it is above her head so sarah wouldnt be able to find a spot to nibble through, and isnt a big nibbler anyway). But my other option is using the metal staircases to cap off the divide, which is what I think I will do to start with. I will put the ladder hooked on but flat across the divide so Mary can look down to see Sarah, and Sarah up. I'll do the substrate exchange, and then I'll have a small cage on the side (after 5 days, a week, or more) to do their introductions, bit by bit. That's now my plan. The guide deguconvert shared was helpful, any proper scuffles, separate them, but a bit of intimidation and jabs let them be, on my watch to intervene if escalates. I'm going to try think of a way to make them more side by side in the best way. I'm also thinking each of them taking a turn in the smaller cage propped up to the lower cage could work (for a short time, I wouldnt let either be in the small cage for too long, just an hour I'm thinking, but for them to be next to each other). The physical aspects about introducing them seems a little limited, so I am hoping they will naturally feel comfort and it will go smoothly. But that's hope, and there are a lot of risks involved. I will try my best in giving Mary the best chance to get along with Sarah. I just hope they will get along like a house on fire so it is all easy, but I know it doesnt go down that way. I will keep you posted, and post annoying updates on how it is going. I apologise in advance, but you guys are the best chance of making both the degus happy. I know the process but I dont have experience, so you all will be able to advise on all of the difficulties and sensitivities of them, so I really do appreciate (and need) the advice and help. I really appreciate you all answering me, as crazy as I sound all the time. And both of them were alone, so i just want them to get along so much. And then they can live happy lives. Thanks guys, this will be good. I will do everything I can. Have a good night/day all! Thanks guys
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Post by savvy on Mar 14, 2021 5:05:22 GMT
Side by side works best for intros as top and bottom creates a hierarchy which can cause issues. Also, the ladders being used to block the hole may trap small legs and cause injuries. Degus are experts at finding new ways to injure themselves.
If you have the floor space, you could take the cage off its stand and place both the top and the bottom sections back to back as long as both sections are accessible for feeding etc. The hole could be blocked off with a perspex sheet to protect the floor. Another perspex sheet could be used as a roof. Even if they are not chewers, cardboard is fibre, and fibre is food. There is a strong temptation to chew it and they will find a way if they really want it.
Alternatively, see if you can borrow a spare stand or roof. I have spare cage pieces from refurbs and replacements for a similar cage. Where are you based?
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Post by Xellie on Mar 14, 2021 6:48:45 GMT
I have the same cage and I've considered how to separate the parts to make them side by side. the problem is the pan for the top one its on the roof of the bottom and the top slots into the bottom, so you need a stand that would allow the legs of the top half to hang over (but big enough to hold the pan). You could probably use perspex or even rejected packs of laminate floor as a roof for the bottom half- if its on top they can't get a purchase on the teeth its fine.
I use a floor tile when I need to block the hole in the pan from top/bottom (such as for cleaning when I don't want them jumping in the dustpan). For about 80p you can order a 33x33cm sample tile from topps and they'll mail it to you with no delivery charge. (also good to have one in the cage upside down to wear down claws)
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 14, 2021 15:51:42 GMT
The other way is to create a third level at the top of the bottom half and then split that level so the degus in the top get to it through the hatch, and the other half of the shelf is already accessible to the goos in the bottom area. It does mean one group has more space than the other and the divider needs a bit of work and thought to be really secure. Sort of like in Degumomofmany's extra shelf but in the top of the bottom half deguworld.proboards.com/thread/6918/show-cage?page=32
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 15, 2021 22:47:57 GMT
That's a genius idea. I think I get the picture. That's workable and even though a bit tricky (for me), it seems actually a more pragmatic solution than any. That's made me think though, because I'm not so DIY savvy, where the entry point is to the bottom cage, I could extend a mesh or wire down to the half platform already in the cage so the top degu could go into the area below (not the full half platform, but can walk down to see the other degu). Not ideal, but all the options have their pros and cons, and I'm not so good at making stuff.
Moletteuk I actually just read an older post of yours as I was looking for ideas on improving their digging experience. It was on your dig pit, and it looked so awesome! For when mary gets here, I was thinking to do a simple very large cardboard box full of loads and loads of hay outside the cage. I wouldnt get to see them dig but I was thinking they would be happy in it, once they are comfortable together. I would cut a small exit hole on the bottom, and maybe stab a few holes on the sides, just because I'd be paranoid about air. But do you think that would work? I already have smaller boxes in Sarah's cage with hay, but I'm thinking one big grand one for them to properly build their tunnels. I'm not very good at DIY so I'm thinking something simple, but they could like it.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 15, 2021 22:54:37 GMT
And savvy that's so kind, I'm in east london. I'd feel a bit guilty taking something from you though. I'm thinking to go with making an access point below the cage to cage connection. What do you think? I could put the cages side to side but space is limited where she is so it would have to be for a short period, so if they were to take months it would get more tricky.
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 15, 2021 23:09:01 GMT
And xellie that is so cheap, I had no idea. I'm definitely going to invest in tiles, even if for day to day. Last time I was cleaning Sarah's cage, I propped up a couple of ladders trapping her in the bottom. How I am talking about the ladder to secure it now, I mean under cardboard with cutout in the area and latched on (but I wont do that now because savvy makes sense, feet can get trapped). But when I did the cage clean I propped a couple of ladders together casually over the hole, left the cage open, walked to the kitchen, and when I came back, sarah had squeezed through the small gap of the prop and was staring at me at the top. She is sneaky! Tile would be a life saver.
As I'm catching up on these messages, Sarah is having a little squeak as she shuffles getting comfy for sleep. I've ordered a security camera for her, mainly because I want to keep her safe when I'm not around, but also I'm going to capture her lovely little sounds! Just wanted to add what a darling she is, and as per my last post I will share her sounds. I heard degus have 15 sounds, but she does loads, there must be more! She is so sweet.
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Post by Xellie on Mar 15, 2021 23:15:18 GMT
You can put it in the fridge and give it to them on hot days too!
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Post by moletteuk on Mar 16, 2021 11:11:20 GMT
Yes, the degu in the top half doesn't need a lot of area of the shared shelf, it doesn't need to be split equally. We can probably advise on the barrier if you get stuck. It's usually best to staple a double layer of mesh onto a wooden frame and then fix the frame to the cage.
It's a case of try it and see with digging boxes. Mine never really dug, but they did spend time making it into a comfy nest box, which they loved, and they also love bigger boxes as stashes for treasure, mine would spend hours collecting and chewing sticks and moving them about. You can experiment with any size box, I would always go with two entrances, they seem to prefer it.
You're going to LOVE the increase in sounds when you get another goo and they start interacting!
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Post by degunewbie on Mar 16, 2021 14:15:12 GMT
AH! ok a bit over an hour ago I got a last minute email from RSPCA that they wanted to do the drop off today. I think they had a schedule change or something, so they had to do it a bit abruptly. Long story short she is here! She is in the pairing cage at the minute, and I will need to go to the DIY store after work to put the divide up, and also clean out the top half of the cage. I told the inspector this as well, and he said it should be OK to leave her to settle in that cage for a bit.
Sarah was cool for the first 10 minutes, and now she is doingwhat sounds like an alarm squeak, a lot and clearly a bit nervous. This is normal right, she will calm down? It seems to be frightening Mary a bit as well.
Jeepers.
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Post by savvy on Mar 16, 2021 14:50:03 GMT
The new degu will not only smell like a new degu, she will also smell of other animals too, so it will be a bit alarming at first.
I'd let her have a sand bath to get back to her own scent and let her settle down a bit.
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