Aggressive young male

[Xellie]

I need ideas on how to tame my crazy boy. He's 9~10 months old. I got him in sept as a 5~6 month old rescue along with his brother. 

Since the first day, he's been standoffish and angry. We've sort of become friends because he likes crocks,  but the most I can get him to bond with me is for him to put his front paws on my arm, then he'll run away. Occasionally he'll climb up a little, but suddenly realizes what he did and runs off. 

He charges at my hand when I'm taking away to fill/filling food bowls. No bites, just claws. This is all accompanied by a LOT of squealing. If any movement happens in the room when he has food, he'll scream. If he hears any kind of packet rustling when he has food in his mouth he has a meltdown and screams. 

All this said I adore him, he's a quirky little guy and does come up to the front bars to say hi. 

He fights a bit with his brother (who is the complete opposite in all manner, he sits on my hand and grooms me) - not very often, I'd say about once a month since November. 

At first I thought his behaviour was related to him being a rescue and being possessive over food. I've also considered that maybe he was a runt (he's quite small!) but I do need to calm him down, I worry about his aggressive behaviour escalating. 

I've used the same methods to tame my gerbils, my old boy degus and my females and all successfully. Everyone else will climb on my hand, or wants a tickle. I've been offering him oats to eat off my hand, and the closest we get is that he'll take one tiny piece and run off with it. 

I've also considered that if he gets too aggressive toward his brother than neutering might be an option. Does anyone have experience with that? 

All ideas on how to soothe him welcome! 

[deguconvert]

I've seen this . . . thinking about it. Had a degu that we called Snuggabug when we brought him home . . . he became so angry, scared and aggressive that he started biting for no reason. His name soon became Jaws. Then I worked hard with him, lost a lot of blood, got really good at treating my bites so they wouldn't swell and infect, and by the time a few months had passed, he was won over and fell in love with me. BUT it was hard, and it was painful, and I had to work every day with him.

[moletteuk]

I would suggest a playpen so that you can interact with him out of his territory and in a way that lets him come to you and doesn't have to involve hands, which gives him more control and freedom. It helps give more of a curiosity responce and can take away the territorial aggression, plus it's really fun for you and the goos.

Hopefully things will improve within the cage given more time for trust to develop. In the meantime I can only suggest moving slowly when you are doing things that he disapproves of, experiment with sort of mindfully showing him what you are doing. Perhaps you can find different ways to do some of the things he hates, like refilling bowls with a scoop so you don't have to remove the bowl. Give some thought to his perspective and what things he might be justified in wishing to be the boss of and which things are non negotiable from your perspective.

Neutering is not recommended for calming aggression between degus. They can make testosterone in their adrenal glands so castration has limited effect.

[Xellie]

I do try to fill them in the cage, I use my hands. What he'll do is run to the bowl, charge my hands so I don't finish. As soon as the first nugget or seed hits the bowl he's all over it. He'll scream and turn his back to me before lunging. Then he'll see that I do the other guys bowl and run for that too - then he usually goes back to the first one to eat, but he'll wail all the time.

I don't mind the wailing - it's kind of endearing, I just want to make him happier.

As for playpens I had been thinking of something like this: www.amazon.co.uk/EUGAD-Playpen-Plastic-Exercise-Enclosure/dp/B07PM511VY/ref=pd_all_pref_n_4?pd_rd_w=pwWbB&pf_rd_p=4d27882c-9fe7-40fd-a2ba-f8a742cae628&pf_rd_r=88XC2RKNFAV1SPCHFKT9&pd_rd_r=0a2f43cc-15e5-446e-ab87-8228d571f093&pd_rd_wg=trtbo&pd_rd_i=B07PM511VY&psc=1

he's in a pet planet (liberta explorer clone) cage, so I would build it up to the bottom of the front door and leave that open for him.

[savvy]

I have this playpen, you need to make sure the corners click into place or it can come apart quite easily.

Have you tried giving him a nugget through the bars first so he's distracted when you fill the bowls?

[Xellie]

Yes, that makes him worse! I know he can't really bite me because his mouth is occupied, but if he has food and then he sees more food that he can't pick up he goes completely batty 

[savvy]

Reggie does that, lol. She's a softy but I get the indignant squeaks when she can't fit anymore in her mouth and I offer her a sunflower seed.

[Xellie]

I love when they do that! But this guy will charge with his claws primed. He bit me earlier too, but that was medication related and it's gonna really put a damper on the progress I've made with him.

[deguconvert]

Xellie . . . Where did you rescue him from? This sounds like food anxiety and I am wondering if food was rather scarce where he was at, or at some point in his life? What you describe makes me think of dogs that have suffered from food deprivation, either because they were the bottom of the pack and everyone else got so much that they got too little, or because the owner was not consistent in providing enough food for their need. Whatever the cause may be, the things you describe sound very similar.

[Xellie]

He was from a rescue center in Norfolk. I love him so much but I also felt so bad when I heard how he and his brother were "lacking confidence", so I picked those two rather than the more confident pair. I knew I have a challenge ahead of me! They warned me to wear gloves when first handling them. I've taken a more "let them come to me" approach, sitting with the door open, letting them come touch me, treats off the hand.

I really don't know his entire background or how long he was with them, just that he was a difficult job.

Speaking of Banshee, I'm having a hell of a time giving him his meds. dropping it on to oats and letting them dry didn't work. Crock didn't work either. Forced handling is the last thing he needs right now

[savvy]

When I had to give Dixie his meds and I knew I was going to struggle with him, I rolled a towel up into a long sausage shape and held it in place with an old wrist brace, but you could use a glove or wrap it in a bandage. It needs to be firm enough not to bend, but still soft enough not to hurt him.

I put him in his carry case, and used the towelling sausage to hold him in place with one hand while trying the syringe (with his meds) into his mouth.

It gave him the opportunity to attack the towel and not me. When he finally attacked the syringe instead, I'd squirt his meds into his mouth.

I found cornering him with the towelling sausage, in one corner of the carry case worked best. He usually got up on his back feet with his front paws resting on the towelling, if that makes sense.

[Xellie]

It's far too distressing to him to restrain him, he goes WILD! He's also terrified of me now and won't come out. I wasn't rough with him but, I guess it wasn't on his terms. I had to medicate my standoffish old boys and they hated it, but it wasn't this bad. I never got bitten either. But this guy, he meant it when he bit me.

So I'm laying out crocks and other various treats and dropping the meds on and leaving them to dry. One crock worked, then no others after. Oats didn't work (he doesnt' care for them).

So I guess I'm back to the beginning winning his trust again.

[deguconvert]

Does he like any nuts . . . like Brazil, almond, pecan, or walnut? If you have to use those for a time, it will not be a terrible thing.

[Xellie]

mm yes he likes walnuts, that's a good try

[winic1]

I used to grind up my guy's favorite seeds/nut, and then mix the med into that, making a tiny ball of nut paste. He would eat it off of a tiny spoon, which I just slipped through the bars of the cage. No grabbing, no hands, nothing scary, just a tasty ball of nuts & med on a non-scary tiny spoon.

You'll have to experiment with how much of the ground nuts/seeds it takes to make the medicine acceptable. You want to make it as small as possible to make sure he eats it all, all at once. Sometimes after making the little paste-ball, I'd sprinkle some more nut powder on top to give it a light coating of good stuff so he'd dig in and not notice the med.

[moletteuk]

Dried veg, like carrot or beetroot slices, can work or sugar and salt free mini shredded wheat can work too.

[Xellie]

I weighed him today. He's very possessive of food, but he seems to eat quite a bit (tho he'll run around with a treat for about 20 mins before eating)

His brother, Buddy who is the same age is 217g (eats less) - and Banshee is only 193g. So he seems a little small. I think he had to compete for food as a little one and didn't win.

[sonataarctica89]

Expect a lot of blood, gizmo was the same and honestly it took me about 3 years to get him to be as good as he is now and in that time I've been bitten countless times, just try not to annoying him or do something he doesnt like degus are known to hold grudges, plus not all degus like being handled, gizmo never has but stripe his brother loved it and the new one I have now loves it as well but not gizmo he just loves being tickled

[Xellie]

He's been jumping on my arm today, then off again very quickly when I noticed. We're making progress, I expect it to take a very long time.

[deguconvert]

Put a treat on your arm near where he has been jumping on, and force yourself not to look. He will start to stay there to eat in a bit. If it is a treat he REALLY loves, he will start looking for it, and relaxing. You could find him becoming more inquisitive within a week. Just make sure it is big enough to be worth looking for, but small enough that he isn't satisfied after eating it.