New degu gets on with two but not the third

[lesliekennith]

Hi All, 

quite a long one but am stumped on what to do and to why this problem is occurring any help would be greatly appreciated.

so two years ago I adopted two sister degus let’s say SISTER A and Sister B to keep it simple. A year later a neutered boy was in need of a home which we gave him and he fell in love  with the girls and has lived happily since. So my problem a female degu a similar age to the other three I have needed urgent rescue in my local area so I couldn’t refuse to help will call her NEW DEGU. She lives separately and is directly adjacent to the cage of the other three. I left them like this for three weeks to climitise to each other. So after three weeks I decided to start the introduction put them in an empty bath tub had them sand bath before going in. I intro New degu to the neatured boy separately as he is super calm and they got on instantly so I decided to add the two sisters then the mood changed. New degu would not let either of the girls near her she just screeched and would throw her hand at them the two sisters keep trying to get to her cone. It then escalated to a proper fight so I split them and left them apart for a week. I then decided to let sister a in with new degu separately and they got on better alone a few boxing matches and some mounting normal degu introduction behaviour. I then decided to try sister b and new degu together alone. This resulted in serious fitting resulting in small injury’s. so my boy sister a and new degu can be together no problem but when I add sister b it results in massive fights. Sister b is going blind and is at the bottom of the peaking order from what I can gather. But all she does all day is sit by the bars that join the new degu cage just trying to get to her. I don’t know why it is only sister b that doesn’t get on with new degu any suggestions. Hope this makes some kind of sense 

[savvy]

Welcome to the fovum, I'm sorry about the problems you are having. There could be several reasons why she isn't being accepted by the other girls. These are in no particular order.

Cage size: if your cage is too small, another degu would be seen as competition for food and space and as an interloper she would be driven out.

Timing: it may be too soon for the girls to be introduced to the new degu, degus can be quite slow at accepting change and 3 weeks isn't very long for them at all.

I think you need to try putting their cages side by side for a few weeks to see how they interact between the bars. Make sure they can't reach each other, but can see each other and chat together.

I'm sure others will have other suggestions.

[savvy]

Apologies for being so brief in my response, my battery needs charging.

[lesliekennith]

Thank you for the reply the main cage is 1.5x 1.8 metres so is rather large. Yeah I’m really unsure on timings as the neatured boy literally was living with them after a few days of arriving. And the new female doesn’t get on with only one of the three degus which I can’t understand.

[savvy]

I think they possibly need more time to get to know each other. They are very territorial. Just try taking it a bit slower.

[savvy]

Mixed sex intros do tend to be easier.

[deguconvert]

Hello, Lesliekennith! Welcome to the forum! Hmmm . . . introductions!! Not an easy thing.

Something that is really hard to know is what position New Girl held in her home, if she is a dominant degu, or if she has had difficulty with other degus before. Did you get any history on her when you rescued her? Is there any way to get information, if not was given before?

Something else that we don't know . . . what information she gleans about the others from their scent. While sister B (I hope I've got this right) may be at the bottom of the rung in the hierarchy of the three, her scent could tell New Girl sister B is the lowest and she is the one to dominate in order to hold a position higher than her. Which would put her in New Girl's sights. To her, and to your other degus, the fact that they hold a higher place in your heart and home because of longer association and how well you understand them, will mean nothing. Hierarchy is earned through mutual acceptance of place, if that means battle, battle will be engaged.

This does not fit well with our human way of thinking. We have a strong sense or horror and offense when someone or something we love is attacked. Whether it is a human loved one, or a dog, cat, (horse, cow, bird, rabbit, etc.) or degu, when they are attacked we feel strong emotions. That is not a bad thing. But we also often don't understand what is behind it all. How many times have we all wished that our animals could talk?! JUST TELL US!! LOL!!

New Girl is living by degu colony etiquette and rules, as are your original degus. This does not mean they will not get together and be very happy together. BUT it could take a while to get there, and there could be significant bumps along the way. There is no clearly defined way of bringing strange degus together, and almost never are they without some conflict. You have had the wonderful experience of one that went super great, and that is something many of us could envy!! It is not the way most introductions go.

Your cages . . . they are 1.5 meters wide, and 1.8 meters high? What is the depth? They sound like they should be plenty large . . . MOST EXCELLENT!! You are ahead of the game!

As Savvy says . . . you may need more time allowing them to adjust to each other, in cages that are side by side. Realize that her presence is going to change the group dynamic, which will find a new normal, but it could take months to achieve. Introductions are better done slowly, rather than too quickly. In the meantime, enjoy getting to know her even better. The better you know her, the more accurately you will understand her temper and the signals she is giving.

[lesliekennith]

Thank you degu convert first new degu came from a really rough small cage where her cage mate had fallen and broken her back so she has just lost her friend which might have been worth mentioning. Unsure on her previous hierarchy.

0.8m deep.

I will definitely take it slowly. One question though she can happily be with the male on her own is It a good idea to occasionally swap cages so put the two sisters in new degus cage and new degu in the sisters cage with the male for a little while. Or would this cause more problems

[winic1]

Swapping cages is generally not recommended anymore, it can cause more stress and fighting over the "new" territory between established pairs. With Sister B going blind, this would be especially stressful for her, trying to function in a completely unfamiliar and potentially hazardous, due to her limited eyesight, place.

Best to take some of the substrate from each cage and swap it into the other cage. This way it introduces the scent to each, without increasing the stress of being in an unfamiliar goo's territory.  Start small, in one place, then increase it as time goes on.

Having had the fighting with the attempted introduction so recent, I'd wait a bit before trying to do this. Let Sister B calm down, from "fight the intruder mode" a bit first.