Degu fighting during introduction

[klaudia]

Hello everyone! 

I`ve been an owner of 2 degu boys for few months now and recently my boyfriend decided on rescuing another boy. So far he is in a separate cage, but we were hoping to slowly introduce him to the other two. I know, that introducing boys may be hard but we want to give it a go. The problem is: When my 2 boys see the new one they start viciously fighting with each other and they only calm down, when the new one is further away. Not sure if it`s something normal? It`s making it nearly impossible to get them to know each other scents and I would hate for sth serious to happen to them. I would appreciate any tips and maybe someone was in the same spot and could share their story?

[savvy]

Welcome to the forum.

Please have a read through our introduction section as intros can be quite lengthy. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide

As the pair are fighting when they see the new guy, are you sure you have another male?

You will also need to check that your cage is big enough for three degus.

In the first instance, I would move the cages a distance apart if it's causing problems so they can get used to the smell and sound of the new degu, but not be able to see him.

Please keep in touch as to how it's going and feel free to ask any questions you need to.

[bouncy]

Ditto Savvy! The reaction you've seen sounds like they could be fighting over a female. Having said that, my lot have fought over the prime position to view (and try to bite) members of the other same sex group.

Take things very slowly - let the goos guide you. And yes, double check your lone boy really is just that!

[klaudia]

By the looks of the area under the tale looks like a boy to me, the other owner gave him up as they were misinformed by the pet shop regarding the sex (they were looking for another female and they were sold a boy).

The cage is big, with 3 different floors and lots of toys to play with + they are mostly outside during the day. We will be taking things slowly with distancing them all etc, just was looking for some extra advice. Thank you!

[deguconvert]

Hello, Klaudia, and welcome to the forum!

I've some questions for you. What are the ages of each of the degus? Hopefully that is information you have or can find out.

Cage size is a tricky thing . . . cages that look to be big can still offer very little actual living space. Our interest is not the volume of space within the cage, which takes into account all the empty air, but the cumulative surface area. Degus are very busy, and are actually built to cover a large amount of distance for their natural activity of foraging for food. When we put them in cages that have limited surface area, they suffer and can become very aggressive, or the opposite and be depressed and lethargic. If we place multiple degus in a cage, the needed surface area increases exponentially. If we don't increase the surface area available to them, the potential for aggression and violence between them also increases. This is the formula that we work from ... deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations ... and it truly does make a massive difference to the health, happiness and general behaviors of the degus placed within. Would you be open to sharing the dimensions of the different floors within your cage?

Did the new boy come with his own cage?

Last question . . . how long have you had the single male in your home?

[klaudia]

2 boys are about 9 months and the new guys is 4 months.

Each cage is 78cmx48cmx80cm and if they will get along together well, we`ll be joining them to create even more space. Each floor is 48 by 40 cm. During the day the cages are open since I am home and can keep an eye on them

Before we brought our new guy home we geared up and bought all new accessories and cage.

And regarding your last question - it will be 2 weeks in 2 days.

*edited*
As an update: Now as my 2 goos see the new one they just jump at each other at the beginning of the "meeting" but after that they visibly calm down and just keep following the new guy. They occasionally grunt at him and wag their tails (which I know is a sign they are not ready yet for a direct encounter). The new guy acts unbothered all the time  

[deguconvert]

OK . . . if you read the fighting and introductions fighting guide that Savvy gave you a link to, you will know that your two boys at 9 months of age are ripe for the adolescent/young adult stage of dominance fighting. Your new little guy at 4 months still has a bit of time to go, but depending on his individual developmental progress, he could be ready for dominance fighting as early as 6 months of age, and some start early at about 5 months. This means that things are potentially going to be chaotic, even ugly if the boys are equally matched and equally determined to be dominant, and that's just the older two. If you add the third one in, it will be worse. Your two boys are right on the cusp of this stage, so close that the sight of the younger male brings on the need to fight and win the dominant position. This is completely normal. It probably was about ready to break out anyway, and the addition of the younger boy to your home likely did not hasten it along at all. However, if you put him in with them, he could take the brunt of their aggression and suffer greatly for it. It is not unheard of that these aggressions result in a death. The young one will be at quite a disadvantage at this point, and will not be able to adequately defend himself. Yes, right now he acts unbothered, but right now he is also alone in a cage without the incessant demand of hormones pushing his urge for dominance. The dominance stage typically lasts from age 6 month to age 18 months. Sometimes up to the age of 24 months in the rare degu.

I would not recommend trying to get him together with the other two at this stage. It could be months before you can do so.

As well . . . I pointed to our cage size recommendations thread earlier. Your cages are about half the surface/living area that we recommend. Small cages frequently exacerbate the intensity of dominance fighting, as well as complicating the process of any introductions. The smaller the living space, the greater the need to remove competition for food and water. It is hardwired into them. It doesn't matter that you are supplying abundant resources, because they are instinctively trying to preserve their species, and too many in a small space equals starvation and death for them all. Please have a look again at this thread. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations Even with your two cages joined together, the surface area available is too small for two or three degus.