Aggressive Degu boys

[charlotte29]

Hello! Its my first time posting here!

Almost 2 years ago our friends gifted me and my bf a pair of degus. By the time we understood that they were not actually a pair of the same gender, the girl degu was already pregnant and a few months later gave birth to 4 little babies (a girl and 3 boys).
Sadly we were very poor at that moment (we had just started living together and barely had the means to pay rent and buy food, so we might not have been the best parents to our degu family). We did not have any excess money to spend on fancy foods or vet but if time came when we were sure something was wrong we did what should be done. We tried giving the little ones away for adoption but no one was willing to accept them (where I live people see degus only as cat food).

One time the little girl ate something wrong and we lost her to diarrhea. We were at work all day and only noticed it when it was too late. There was nothing even vet could do to save her

At the moment all kids have grown up and we all have better living conditions! We have two cages now - one for our miss Mommy degu and other one for males (we do not want any more unexpected pregnancies). We have hay trays and even separate bowls for each of degus to avoid fighting.
I try my best to socialize with missus and she is very friendly towards me. She loves belly rubs and softly nibbles me back but she doesn't enjoy being held.
The boys are boys. Sometimes they wrestle and fight, but mostly are affectionate towards each other. I have taught them to be very social towards humans, to come and play with my fingers or climb my shoulder when they want snacks (which is very cute). Sometimes when I am about to feed them all four of them would jump out of cage and try to climb me. But they do not like it when I try to pet them or scratch under the chin so I avoid that.

But lately the boys have started to act aggressively towards me. They would still climb me but also try to scratch my cheek with their little sharp paws (I no longer give them any treats when they do so). If I try to play with them by putting finger inside cage, they have started to push my fingers away and bite. When trying to feed they bite my hands and my sleeves. Some of them seem to really enjoy tugging and pulling my clothes and look like little dogs when doing so. They do it extremely aggressively... once they even made a hole in my shirt. Now its even impossible to fish out the feeding bowls (they are buried deep in their bedding as the father degu likes to rearrange the cage every day) without wearing jacket with thick sleeves. I have tried to show them its bad by weeping when they bite or pushing them aside, but that makes things even worse - they just come and try to fight me

Have I somehow taught them disrespect? Do they see me only as a treat dispenser and this behavior is simply them insisting on more treats?
Thanks for any help!

[bouncy]

I'm sorry your guys have become so grumpy and aggressive! It must hurt that they've changed behaviour.

I have a few questions. Is it just the boys that attack you, or daddy goo too? Since they became aggressive, has anything changed in your or their environment? Even new noises or scent? Have you changed your air freshener, perfume, or laundry powder?

Poor mummy degu - the extra scratches and strokes she allows you are a sign she is missing degu company. I totally understand you not wanting to have more babies, but have you considered maybe having daddy goo neutered so he can live with mummy goo again?

[charlotte29]

May 4, 2020 9:09:11 GMT bouncy said:

I'm sorry your guys have become so grumpy and aggressive! It must hurt that they've changed behaviour.

I have a few questions. Is it just the boys that attack you, or daddy goo too? Since they became aggressive, has anything changed in your or their environment? Even new noises or scent? Have you changed your air freshener, perfume, or laundry powder?

Poor mummy degu - the extra scratches and strokes she allows you are a sign she is missing degu company. I totally understand you not wanting to have more babies, but have you considered maybe having daddy goo neutered so he can live with mummy goo again?

Thanks for your reply! 

Daddy degu is actually the one who started it. At first I thought he was simply a little energetic, but later it happened more often. Others joined him later.

I cannot imagine what has changed from before. Seems everything is the same as it was, except for one time a few weeks ago when we moved cages to the kitchen for a while so I could concentrate on my work (we have a tiny one room flat and they were making awfully lot of noise that day, humping each other and probably fighting for dominance as they sometimes do). But if I remember correctly, they were acting like this already before that.
Whats interesting for me is that they do not seem scared of me or anything that happens around us (except for occasional shadow cast by sudden movement behind the window).

As for neutering -  we have considered this and wanted to do it quite a while ago, but according to all vets we have spoken to, there is no one in our country who is capable and wanting to do it, so we decided not to risk it with someone unprofessional :/
We are thinking about getting Mommy another friend, but we are not sure if she would accept her. There is also a problem with pet shops - seems they do not know how to distinguish between degu genders or simply refuses to do so. For now we place cages next to each other from time to time to let them communicate a little. Ofcourse its not enough, but atleast its something.

[bouncy]

Hmmmmmm.

One thing that comes to mind is that daddy goo may be struggling to maintain his alpha status, and is now including you in the struggle to demonstrate to his sons that he's still in charge, and his sons are copying him.

I think it's worth trying a stronger stance to assert your status as true alpha. Rather than squeaks to bad behaviour, try a loud NO. To save your skin and clothing, I would also suggest for now to not hunt out the food bowl each day, and just scatter their food on the cage floor. They can feed just as well, and the scattering will engage their natural foraging behaviour.

Are you working at home at the moment because of the virus, or do you always work at home? I wonder if your almost permanent presence is making them feel their territory is under threat? As they are very territorial creatures.....

[charlotte29]

May 4, 2020 10:42:47 GMT bouncy said:

Hmmmmmm.

One thing that comes to mind is that daddy goo may be struggling to maintain his alpha status, and is now including you in the struggle to demonstrate to his sons that he's still in charge, and his sons are copying him.

I think it's worth trying a stronger stance to assert your status as true alpha. Rather than squeaks to bad behaviour, try a loud NO. To save your skin and clothing, I would also suggest for now to not hunt out the food bowl each day, and just scatter their food on the cage floor. They can feed just as well, and the scattering will engage their natural foraging behaviour.

Are you working at home at the moment because of the virus, or do you always work at home? I wonder if your almost permanent presence is making them feel their territory is under threat? As they are very territorial creatures.....

Haha, it might be so! The kids finally have grown to be full-sized degus and have also been having wrestling fights a little more often lately.

For maybe the last half year some days I would work from home, other days go to school or office.. Id say it was rather inconsistent. But ever since I've been home every day I have been paying more attention to them (simply can't resist). It actually might be just as you say. Maybe I really should try to keep myself away for a while..

Thank you for the advice! I will definitely try it

[misscatafer]

So sorry you are experiencing this. The only thing I can think of is do they have enough space, is their cage big enough? For 4 adult degus they would need a very large cage. You are right that they would also need multiple food bowls, water bottles, toys and wheels. If they are feeling cramped maybe they are getting angry when you are entering their territory. What cage do you have them in?

[deguconvert]

Hello Charlotte29, and welcome to the forum!

I was also thinking about cage size, like Misscatafer. Four adult males will need a large cage. We have a cage size recommendation formula that we use on this forum. I'll give you a link. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations Degus do better with lots of space, and if they are feeling cramped, they will be more competitive for the the high value things like food and water. Anything more coming into their space will be seen as an added threat to the high value items and will be aggressively repulsed. They may get even more aggressive with each other, actively seeking to expel one from their midst (usually the weakest of the bunch) so as to ensure survival and health in the remaining members.

Like Misscatafer, I am interested to know what cage you are using and what it's dimensions are?

I had a group of three males in a cage I had been told was sufficient for three degus, but they fought terribly. They were also in the aggressive adolescent/young adult stage that runs from ages 6 - 18 months . . . but it wasn't until I doubled the size of the cage that they finally began to maintain a settled state. Then I built my own wooden cage that was massive, and they LOVED it! So did I, LOL!