ja92
Newborn Degu
Posts: 2
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Post by ja92 on Aug 27, 2019 9:30:06 GMT
Hello all, I made an account so I could post today.
I've recently acquired a pair of male goos, Port & Stilton, I think I got them at about 6-8 weeks old from the breeder.
Here's the low-down:
- The house they're in is a typically loud house with lots going on, we both work from home so are in most of the days. They are housed in the kitchen where there is a lot of noise with cooking, dishes being washed etc. I understand Degus prefer quiet environments but that isnt' possible in our household, so I thought the earlier we can get them used to the loud noises, the better, although I imagine all these noises have enhanced their very jumpy personalities.
- They have lots of toys and places to hide etc in their cage, their cage is good.
- Took them about 2 weeks to 'settle'' down to the point where they would RUN to the cage door whenever I approached, Port, the more confident goo, would even run all over my hands, arms, even ran all over me once and turned up on my shoulder when he escaped the cage! Stilton is a bit more timid, but had still grow in in confidence exponentially.
- After 2 weeks, I did a big cage clean, which I now understand isnt' best practise - I feel this really put them back several stages. They had to go in their playpen (which I think they hate!) while I cleaned it. They then started cowering in the corner whenever I came in the room, approached the cage, and they wont come for any treats anymore from my hands, and even incredibly reluctant to come to the bars to get treats.
- After 2 weeks, we are still not really any further forward, despite my best efforts. I can feel frustration starting to build now, which I don't want, as I know any frustrations will ultimately put me back further with the goos. I do nothing but love and care for them, have been as nice and gentle as possible, and done nothing to make them think I'm a threat. I feel like everyday we are going more and more backwards now.
- We are now at the stage where they wont take any treats from me at all and won't eat their degu nuggets from me either. They look absolutely petrified of me whenever I'm in the room, any sudden movements, or noises, even as subtle as me exhaling slightly louder than normal, sends them hurling back and cowering in a corner or hiding in a nesting box.
- After feeling like we were building a good bond, I don't understand how suddenly we are so far behind again, they're arguably less trusting now than they were during the first week they were here. They have a constant look of terror on their faces, wide eyes, always looking primed in their bodies to run away, frozen there. It's a bit pathetic from them and upsetting for me in equal measures haha.
- They also spend most of their day running in their wheel, is this normal? When they're not frozen in a corner that is!
- For reference, the goos are about 10-12 weeks old now.
Any advice would be really appreciated I don't have a great deal of patience, I'm hoping I haven't messed things up really badly, or I might have to let these guys go and try again as I don't have the time to work for months on scared goos! I was really hoping we were going to be best friends after that second week, was feeling very positive. Very disappointed.
Cheers!
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Post by savvy on Aug 27, 2019 9:50:12 GMT
Welcome to the forum, 8m sorry to hear about the problems you're experiencing.
As you say, a big cage clean was a huge mistake and you have effectively reset everything, including their scent markers, back to square one. Degus rely on these markers for so much; it marks their boundaries, where they are in the pecking order, etc.
You need to remember the size difference between yourself, your family and your degus. Degus are prey animals and are naturally wary of anything bigger as it could be a predator, so they'll run to stay alive.
Two weeks is nothing to a degu in time terms and it can take months to get them to trust you. And it takes loads of patience, lots of time sitting in front of the cage with your hand inside so they can get used to you, loads of talking softly, the list goes on.
You say it's a noisy house, is there anywhere else you can put their cage which is quieter? Also what set up do you have? How are you moving them to their playpen?
All of these things can be incredibly frightening to adult degus, let alone pups.
We will help you all we can, but there may be things you will need to reconsider in terms if set up etc.
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Post by moletteuk on Aug 27, 2019 11:14:20 GMT
Hi Ja92, welcome to the forum  In my experience the only way to get along with degus is to try to think about the world from their point of view and try to understand them a little bit. Degus are very intelligent, very social and above all are prey animals so that inevitably results in certain behaviours. They are very young and have been removed from their family and the home they knew so settling in to your house and family is a big deal for them. Something has obviously scared them deeply and so you are right you probably are further back with them than you started because they started to trust and then fir whatever reason felt like the trust was betrayed, so now they have more reason to be distrustful, however unfair that may seem to you. Is there any chance anything else happened around the time of the cleanout to scare them, are you sure all members of the household are always being kind to them? Wheeling a lot is common especially with young degus. You might like to take a look at our beginner's guide to check that your cage and food is adequate, you won't ever have confident degus if those two things aren't right: deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19754/beginners-guide-degu-keeping Check out the diet section for further information about feeding, degus can be fussy and pet shop advice is totally inadequate regarding feeding. Generally with degus you get out what you put in and there are also hidden traps along the way, they aren't easy pets. |
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ja92
Newborn Degu
Posts: 2
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Post by ja92 on Aug 27, 2019 11:52:11 GMT
Welcome to the forum, 8m sorry to hear about the problems you're experiencing. As you say, a big cage clean was a huge mistake and you have effectively reset everything, including their scent markers, back to square one. Degus rely on these markers for so much; it marks their boundaries, where they are in the pecking order, etc. You need to remember the size difference between yourself, your family and your degus. Degus are prey animals and are naturally wary of anything bigger as it could be a predator, so they'll run to stay alive. Two weeks is nothing to a degu in time terms and it can take months to get them to trust you. And it takes loads of patience, lots of time sitting in front of the cage with your hand inside so they can get used to you, loads of talking softly, the list goes on. You say it's a noisy house, is there anywhere else you can put their cage which is quieter? Also what set up do you have? How are you moving them to their playpen? All of these things can be incredibly frightening to adult degus, let alone pups. We will help you all we can, but there may be things you will need to reconsider in terms if set up etc. Hi thanks so much for the reply I appreciate the cage clean was a mistake, I'm doing spot cleaning of the places I can most frequently see a poo build up every day or 2 and will try to clean just little bits at a time on a cycle so it's never too overwhelming. They particularly dislike it when I change their hammock/bed. I thought it would stimulate more interest, but it seems not! I work from home, so for the first month I have been literally spending loads of time with them, doing the sitting with hand in cage, etc. I'd already read the guides here before I got them There isnt' anywhere else they can go really - its a generally noisy house and area, it's only myself and my housemate here. We do try and keep bangs and loud sudden noises to a minimum now the goos are here though. I move them to their playpen, which is a pop up thing I got from Amazon, via my hand or a tube. Port just climbs on my hand and lets me do whatever, Stilton needs treats in a cardboard tube, then I gentle move her down (only about 1-2 seconds in the tube) to the playpen. @molette Thanks for your reply! When cleaning the cage, there was quite a bit of banging and other noises as I was also rinsing and scrubbing the cage in my (tiny) bathroom! This all definitely added to the stress. In hindsight, I was silly doing this, but you learn the most from your mistakes! My housemate I believe is very kind to them, although I cannot know for sure how he is when he is alone with them. I'll have another read, and re-read of the links and beginners section and see if I can get any tips! Also, earlier, they started taking some feed from my hand again and don't bolt in the corner if I audibly warn them I'm about to enter the room (they are in the corner) and then gently approach the cage. Slow steps! |
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Post by savvy on Aug 27, 2019 12:12:16 GMT
It's going to take time.
Where is your cage situated, as in at floor level, behind a door etc? Is it in a position where you appear suddenly, which is startling them? Or looming over them when you approach the cage. I'm asking because degus can be spooked by shadows passing over them (as Moletteuk says, think degu) which they view as a large airborne predator coming to get them.
I never wash anything in my cage apart from wiping wee spots with clean water, everything else gets a good stiff brush which removes any forage, poo, etc which is clinging to it, but doesn't remove their markers. Try to keep everything in their cage as natural as possible (no plastics) so they can chew it. I'd leave their hammock alone as much as possible, but if it gets too grubby, put another one in for a week, putting a little bit of used substrate on it, then remove the original grubby one. This will be a change, but a gradual one.
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Post by deguconvert on Aug 27, 2019 19:08:10 GMT
Degus are truly lovely animals, but as you have been learning, they are not easy animals to care for. Degus are complex, and understanding them is not easy. They require much larger cages than what is recommended by pet stores, and even by many breeders. They are not naturally trusting, and it takes time and effort to build a trust relationship with them . . . and that means each individual degu, because they are very different from one to the next, just as all creatures are . . . they have minds and personalities worth taking the time and effort to know. Degus are NOT cuddly. No matter how many videos we watch that display a degu that is lifting an arm to be scratched in the armpit, or tilting a head for a chin and behind the ear scratch, a number of these feature single degus that are so desperate for companionship that they accept these attentions from their human. Yes . . . there are those degus that have degu companions AND have formed a deep bond with their human and gladly receive such attentions, but they are not common. More common is the degu that ignores you until you have their favorite treat in hand, or comes up to check you out when they are having out of the cage time because you might have their favorite treat. Degus think with their stomachs.  Degus will learn to interact with you, even learn tricks, but they will not do these unless they have a trust bond with you. Trust bonds, as already said, take a lot of time. While you may not see any just cause for fear or even a sense of offence, you're the giant in the equation, living in your own familiar environment, with years of experience under your belt, your degus are very young and learning. For them, distrust is the go to, until trust has been well proven and earned . . . they live longer that way. Degus are also known to hold grudges, they remember an offence or a scare for a long time, whether we know what it was and agree with it or not. Even though it is frustrating to have the setback, if the higher goal is to know and love them for who and what they are, it is worth it to put in the time to overcome the fright and regain their trust. Once you have regained it, you will find that it is a stronger bond than the first. Something more that you need to know . . . degus go through a stage of adolescence and young adulthood from the age of about 5-6 months and can last through to the age of 18 months. This is fraught with fighting and squabbling, injuries and lots of tension. During this time they are contesting for dominance, which is a big thing in degu culture because they are first and foremost social animals that live in large colonies, and being dominant give them first rights for mating, food selection, and authority, to name a few. This is hotly contested in most cases, some are less dramatic, while others can result in the death of one or more animals. They all do this, male and females alike. It is chaotic and stressful. It requires more patience and determination than you have ever had to exercise, and you need the support of others to help you get through it. If you find that you cannot enjoy the two you have, please know that replacing these two with two different ones will not ensure that you have a better result. You are seeing typical degu behavior. |
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Post by misscatafer on Aug 27, 2019 23:26:51 GMT
Hi, welcome to the forum I echo what everyone else has said really, you have had them no time at all in degu terms! One of my girls had been with us nearly 2.5 years, and still does not allow any touching - she probably never will, which is absolutely fine. This is normal degu behaviour. It probably would be a good idea to think about where the cage is situated and if it is big enough for them to help them feel more comfortable. Degus like being high up I have found so they have a good view of what is going on around them. Would this be achievable? Definitely stop messing with their territory so often too - there is absolutely no need to be changing their bedding/hammocks so often. I understand you want to change the cage up to stimulate them, but too much change too often will just annoy them - consider if this was occurring in your room and somebody was constantly moving things around. Degus are messy! Unfortunately when you get degus as pets you are commiting yourself to 10+ years of poo,hay and bedding everywhere lol. Many of us here are still coming up with ingenious ways of reducing the mess, but you will always have mess with them. Are you aware that degus also eat their own poo? It doesn't smell (luckily!) so it isn't a big deal to just leave it where it is. Personally, I hoover most days, and then do a light all over cage clean every 5 weeks. I don't bother with spot cleans unless an area is literally dripping with urine. I used to clean alot more often, I even used to hoover up all the poops every few days! But over the years I have come to learn that my degus are a lot more settled and content now that I leave the cage alone as much as possible. Try not to give up on your little guys yet, they are so young and you really haven't had them that long. Stick around on here with us and we are happy to help you get the most out of your furry family |
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Post by chipshuman on Oct 2, 2019 7:02:13 GMT
Some may never let you hold them I can't say I blame them we are giants compared to them imagine how scary that would be if something that much bigger than us was trying to pick you up
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Degus will learn to interact with you, even learn tricks, but they will not do these unless they have a trust bond with you. Trust bonds, as already said, take a lot of time. While you may not see any just cause for fear or even a sense of offence, you're the giant in the equation, living in your own familiar environment, with years of experience under your belt, your degus are very young and learning. For them, distrust is the go to, until trust has been well proven and earned . . . they live longer that way. 
