Meeting two pairs of degu’s

[hjc680]

Hello,

I have four male degus, pinky and brain (brothers), rice and beans (brothers) pinky and brain were our first pair they are amazing and very active little guys and had a recent health checkup at the vet before we got rice and beans and said they were in perfect health

Rice and beans we bought a month ago, they are 2-3 months old we let them settle in for two weeks before we started handling them. Swapping them with the big guys after a week so they got a whiff of their scent, we got them out and were handling them a little bit and giving them treats by hand last week and everything was going well so we thought we would set up our playpen, 1.5m x 1.5m panels on a blanket so it’s soft.

They just ignored each other and stayed on opposite sides of the pen hiding in the little tunnels I put in there on Monday and Tuesday this week, Wednesday they all ran around and there was a little mounting but again no real interest, Thursday beans had a scrap with brain so we separated them and put them back in their cage, Friday we didn’t want to bother them as beans was crying a little, he’s not hurt but he is a lot more timid than before, have I rushed things? They are in a tall cage not a side by side one, the hole is blocked off completely so they can’t interact unless I have them all out in the play pen

*Edit* I was worried about bean so I took him out to get ready to go to the vet and noticed he might actually be a she...

Took him/her back to the pet store and they were really helpful and swapped beans for one they knew was definitely a boy from an earlier litter, we named him peanut and he is settling in well with Rice so I will re-try intros in a week

[deguconvert]

Hi there, Hjc80! Welcome to the forum!

It is possible that you have rushed things a little. Degu introductions can take a good long while, and we often say that slower is better. But then, lots of people don't understand that a week or two is way too quick for the vast majority of introductions between degus. There are so many things to consider, the most demanding of which are the complex characters of degus and the relationships they build within a colony.

The rare time, there will a very quick bonding, but it isn't common at all. A month would be pretty quick for most degus. There are lots of different ideas on introductions and bonding, depending on where you are looking online, and here we do have some things we like to follow as basic guidelines. We recommend that you have two cages that can sit side by side because then no one is holding a higher position than anyone else. Degus that live over top of others are in a dominant position, which sets up an expectation that that degus below will be subordinate. Degus need to be able to all be in agreement about what position they have on the dominance totem pole, and often that acceptance is hard won. There will be battles, but they go better if they are all on the same level, not living above or below each other. Saying that doesn't mean that they won't fight hard, but we can tell you that the fights are harder and meaner when they live apartment style and are being introduced. Owners that started out apartment style but changed to side by side cages were able to observe reductions in aggression that weren't taking place when they were living above/below each other.

Next . . . the size of the cage is crucial. Many online forums and pet stores recommend cages sizes and styles that are completely wrong for the needs of degus. We don't use the volume within the cage as the important spacial measurement, but rather the surface area, or running area within the cage. Just like how we measure the floor area within a home to describe the size of it, rather than the volume of all the open space above the floors we stand and walk on. This links you to the thread that shows the sizes we recommend according to the number of degus living in each cage. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/9396/forums-cage-size-recommendations . What are the dimensions for your cage? How many levels? What kind of space do you have to work with in your home for your cage?

Can I ask if you have read our guidelines for introductions? We have two . . . here they are . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17619/deguconverts-detailed-introductions-fighting-guide
deguworld.proboards.com/thread/17618/introductions-fighting-quick-guide

This may sound like a no-brainer question, but are you certain that all of your degus are male? The urethral cone, that both male and female degus have, is often mistaken for a penis, which it is not, and therefore does not indicate the sex of the degu. This link . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/13070/degus . . . will show you how to tell the difference between male and female degus if you don't already know.

Introductions are not easy, and we are glad to help you all that we can. Please ask us all and any questions you have. Feel free to vent, to ask for ideas, to whatever you need to get through this process. Many of us have been through it a time or two. All of us have had cages that were two small and have had to look for better options. Well . . . there are a very small handful on here that researched cages through many websites, and happened to buy or build cages of appropriate size before getting their degus . . . but that is not the common experience. So we are quite empathetic to the frustration of hearing our cage isn't right, and the struggle that may follow to remedy the situation.

[hjc680]

Hi Deguconvert thankyou for the welcome and the reply

i wasn't expecting to put both pairs in the same cage within a few weeks that was going to be based upon how they interacted over a month in the play pen, but i still see your point about how i should give it longer before the initial meeting.

i was looking at degutopia and here as you both have what seems to be the most reliable information on what is the best way to keep the lil guys happy.

i have a liberta explorer cage.... www.google.com/search?q=liberta+explorer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-gbGB832GB832&oq=liberta+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.3774j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 .... like that one and i have 12 ledges all around the cage they are a mixture of the large and small ones here... www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/lookout-ledge ... and two lavastone ledges that get completely destroyed every week so i replace them as often as they need. Just so you have a kind of idea on how the cage is setup i have put a picture here... www.tumblr.com/blog/degudegu2019 ... if you want me to take any more pictures to see it better then let me know, the white cage in the bottom is holding peanut, which i will come to now.

So i was having a look at beans like i said in my edit and i think she is a girl so i took her back to the pet store, they still thought she was a boy but were happy to swap he/she out as it really wasn't working for the lil furball. The drive up there would have been stressful enough let alone another drive back so they have lent me an old hamster cage to rotate peanut and rice between for a few days so they both get use of the wheel and to make sure there is no fighting, as long as there isnt they said it should be okay to remove the hamster cage and just watch them for a day to make sure nothing happens, they were housed together before at the pet store, is his half brother and they got along really well before so fingers crossed! they seemed to be excited to see each other as there was lots of wibbling when i first put him in there

[deguconvert]

The Liberta link brings up a page of Liberta links, but I assume you mean that you have the stacked cage. Having just the two complete levels means that the total surface area that your degus can run on, is only 11,718 square cm. This less than what we recommend for two degus, and just over half of the space we recommend for four. While the large number of ledges you have do give some perching spots that are likely close enough to be able run/hop from one to the next, they do not provide actual living space. Sort of like a row of chairs attached to the walls do not increase floor space. A second floor addition of the same size as the first, doubles the floor space. If you were to DIY two complete levels, one in each section of the cage, you will have given all four a dramatic increase in living space, and the Liberta accommodates that increase very well. If you have large wheels that need to be accommodated in the cage, then you can stagger two half levels, which will give the same increase. Here is an excellent example of the staggered half levels. deguworld.proboards.com/thread/15977/paradise-critter-nation

I love that you have the lava ledges in your cage! They are excellent for keeping teeth in good order . . . at least the incisors . . . and if they like them, keep them coming!!
I don't have a tumblr account so am unable to view your cage photo.

I confess, I'm nervous about your introductions having swapped out Beans for Peanut. That means that Peanut and Rice are new to each other, which will require time for settling, especially since they are not from the same litter. (At the same time . . . if Beans is female . . . you would have had even greater combat for mating rights with her, and she could have experienced some rather savage treatment under the attentions of three males. On top of that, eventually you would have discovered that pups were an added demand with your degu family.) Do I correctly understand that Peanut is in the hamster cage beside the cage that Rice is in? While they may have lived together for a period of time in the pet store, there has been sufficient time apart for any bond to have been forgotten. A new one will have to be forged. Hopefully you will have brought in a male that is a complimentary personality to Rice, and they will get along well! Having said that . . . they are not far from their adolescent stage, which typically begins about 5-6 months of age and can (and sometimes will) extend to the age of 18 months. Some don't start until they are nearer a year in age, fooling us into believing we have avoided the dreaded adolescent stage. It is rife with fighting and contesting for dominance, and is an particularly difficult stage for owners. Introductions at any point in this time can fall apart easily. Set backs are common, but not an indication of a hopeless endeavor.

I am really NOT trying to discourage you, though I am sure it must feel very much like that is exactly my intent. I do want you to know that it is a big task. It is not easy. You have to have more determination and patience than you ever thought you could have. It is well WORTH it when you get to the end, but you may find yourself wondering if it is ever going to happen, and you might question your sanity a time or two. That is what we are here for. To cheer you on. Help you get through the processes, help you to understand what you are seeing, and then to figure out what methods may work better than others in your efforts to make them a cohesive and well bonded colony.

[hjc680]

Yes sorry that was meant to be an image link but your right its the stacked cage. 66.media.tumblr.com/2721bf9a5d32695f106cb8da8fa64f61/tumblr_prvbevtWlt1yp7a2uo1_540.jpg .... that's a better link to the picture you should be able to view without a login to tumblr. Its the largest cage i could find online, the ones in the pet store were really really small, like half the size if not a little smaller i did think about building one but i was worried about materials and whether or not they were pet safe and that i wouldn't be able to make it secure enough to keep them in.

I have been looking for a place to buy additional levels but so far i haven't had any luck, i was thinking if i got some kiln dried pine planks i could fit them together and secure them to the cage with bolts to make a larger platforms to run on? so each part of the cage would have 2 half levels to run and then the base floor part, i have one really big deep wheel and one slightly smaller one that is still pretty deep, pinky and brain can run in both side by side without pushing the other out, that critter nation link was really really useful i think i'm going to try to replicate it as best i can, whats the stuff that they use to cover the floor with do you know?

I want to mention quickly the pet store i got Pinky and Brain from is different to the one i got Rice, Beans and Peanut from. the pet store i got Pinky and Brain from was a mega pet store and they were already removed from their main family a long time before we got them. Rice and Peanut are from a much smaller i think family run pet store and lived as a large group right up until we bought them.

As i mentioned before they said that Peanut and Rice used to be very attached to each other, Rice was up half the night i think looking for Beans to snuggle with so i was down there keeping him company til about 3:30AM. Then when i got up this morning both Rice and Peanut were out in the open. Peanut was resting against the edge of his cage and Rice was right next to him on his side sleeping. which is the most relaxed i have seen Rice since he got here, i'm assuming that's a good sign? and no the hamster cage is inside the big cage not outside it, heres a picture.... 66.media.tumblr.com/f2d46496bdce248f7b8c852add373c6f/tumblr_prwvk79fYa1r6e797_540.jpg

I have them setup with Peanut in the smaller cage and Rice in the wheel, i wish i had snapped a picture of them sleeping but the second they heard me come up to the cage they sprang to life i will swap them over tonight and change beddings over so that peanut can use the wheel and get used to the run of the cage a little bit.

Have no fear i'm one of the most patient people on the planet i have no doubts that i will be able to do this no matter how long it takes, and I assure you i wont be doing any introductions between Pinky & Brain and Rice & Peanut for a long time now as i want to make sure that rice and peanut are happy and settled together before i put them through more stress of meeting another pair and sharing more living space. In the mean time i'll try to make the modifications to my cage of more levels and keep you posted

[deguconvert]

The substrate on the flooring in the critternation cage that I linked you to is coco matting, like you can find in a garden store. It has mixed reviews. Some people LOVE it, and others HATE it. LOL. If you were to want to try it out, make sure that you get flat lengths, and that you personally give it a very good sniff all over. Sometimes they are sprayed with insecticides and other nasty things that would be deadly for your degus. Here is another link deguworld.proboards.com/post/174205/thread where the owner has used correx as a base to cover the wood that was used to construct the levels. Her (Misscatafer) cage is quite amazing!! She has also made a playpen using a thicker and sturdier correx that has been an excellent and very successful playpen. Key to the success is the black colour of the correx, which makes it very hard for the degus to detect the edges and thus prevents them chewing their way out. If you are interested in the correx playpen, the link is here deguworld.proboards.com/thread/21316/new-play-pen . The first playpen you will see was Misscatafers first pen, and it uses much heavier wood for the purpose. That was too heavy, and she got creative with a new idea, which was the correx. Look to the second page, and you will find it there.

I'm going to give you another link for a cage modification where the owner had half levels above the full levels in an Aventura cage, which is very similar to the Liberta. They extended the half level using wood frames and then flooring to create a full level, and it worked very well. Here . . . deguworld.proboards.com/thread/19881/aventura-modifications-complete . If I am seeing your cage photo correctly, you have a half level that could be used to the same effect?

I wasn't worried about Rice, Bean, and Peanut, and Pinky and Brain all being from the same pet store. Any concern about being from the same litter would be if little Bean is indeed female and potentially pregnant by Rice. There would be inbreeding in that case. I was also thinking about the length of time that Rice and Peanut had been apart after you brought Rice and Bean home originally, which is a couple of months. In degu brains, that a LONG time. The changes in scent that result from living in a new location, having different foods, different substrates etc can completely wipe out any recognition. More than that, because degus use their urine as their information source, which constantly reminds them who is who, what health they are in, what position they hold in the colony and so on, if that particular degu no longer is present and their urine is therefore absent, the reminders are gone as well and they will be forgotten. We have learned, for instance, that deep cleaning a cage can cause great chaos in a colony because without the reminders present in every urine trail, they seem to experience a complete memory wipe, and suddenly there is dominance fighting again to re-establish who is dominant and so forth. It can happen as well if a degu is ill and must stay a day or more with a veterinarian. The smells that the degu will bring back with it from the pet hospital can make it smell like a complete stranger and has been known to cause vicious fighting.

The hamster cage as you have it inside the cage looks really good for helping them to get to know each other. Just keep an eye out for anyone biting a tail that is protruding through the bars into the others space, or biting paws or noses. Have you been hand training Rice, and now Peanut?

[hjc680]

Thank you i will definitely look into it as it looks like something Pinky and Brian would love to sit there and destroy for a few hours. The playpen i have is a pre-made one for small dogs everything else they were finding a way out of... www.amazon.co.uk/Tespo-Playpen-Portable-Plastic-Transparent/dp/B06XTG94TH/ref=sr_1_48?keywords=panel+pen&qid=1558547517&s=gateway&sr=8-48

I think they like it its big enough for them to get a good sprint up around the edges and i fill it with wicker huts, wood log bridges, grass tunnels, the sand bath with 2 drops of lavender oil in it, some hollowed out apple tree trunks, gnawing wood, a water bowl (work in progress) and a few treats broken up into tiny pieces and hidden everywhere, i can section bits off so if i get them all out together they can see each other through the panels but cant get to each other, i have loads of correx in my garage but its white so i'll have to go and get some more black stuff unless that would work as well?

Its okay i just thought it was worth mentioning, Beans is back in the pet store now and i have noticed a big difference in how Pinky and Brain act, they aren't squabbling as much and Rice seems a lot happier, has spent most of the day on the wheel instead of watching Beans run from a platform. I've taken to always keeping a handful of the old shavings and putting them back in to minimise the squabbling after a clean. I'm really pleased with how the hamster cage is working, i haven't seen any aggressive behaviour so far for the most part they're kind of ignoring each other apart from the odd sniff and wibble, no alarm noises which i would expect if there was a nip?

When I'm happy that i can take the hamster cage out and that Rice and Peanut are ready do you think i could place it in the top half of the cage over the hole so that Rice and Peanut can walk up and start to interact with Pinky and brain? swapping them between the top and bottom halves for a little while before a meet in the bathroom? i know you said about the problems with having an apartment style cage like mine unfortunately i just don't have the space for a second cage at the moment and i cant think of a safer way to let them all meet each other. this wont be for at least a month or two for sure.

[hjc680]

Oh and i have been Hand training Rice, with little bits of his food, he doesnt really have much of a taste for the treats the same way the others do apparently he LOVES monkey nuts but i haven't given him any yet.

Peanut is still settling in, i gave him a small bit of a treat through the bars he took it and ran away into the grass tunnel to nibble

[deguconvert]

I think that is an interesting idea to put the hamster cage in the upper portion, but there is a problem with it. They will see Rice and Peanut as invaders coming in and will see them as suspect and will adopt an aggressive stance with them, rather than a curious, who are you, kind of openness. I wonder what would happen if, when you feel they are ready, you were to use the hamster cage in the play pen instead? We recommend that degus not be swapped between cage areas, only swap the substrate. There is something about "putting your feet on the ground" that makes them feel like they own that space and then become more combative toward the scent of those they feel are intruders. To meet the "scent" in person then ignites fury and you are fighting a greater battle for introductions than you want.

What do you use for treats?

[hjc680]

Noted - thank you, i was a little worried about moving Pinky and Brain below as they never really liked it down there they used it more as a bathroom than anything else when they had full run of the cage

For treats i use store bought treats, of which i have a few to mix it up: Dandelion and Rosehip hoops,Timothy Hay and Thyme hoops, Pea and Mint sticks, Blackberry and Chamomile sticks, Dandelion and nettle roots, oats, apple and pansy hearts and alfalfa sticks. the food they are on has a lot of sweetcorn and peas in it so i pick them out and put them in a treat pot ready for when i want to try handling them.

When i do try to handle them i use a small tube to bridge the gap between the cage and my hand so I'm not entering his space and hold the treat at the other end for him to sniff. Once he takes the first little treat i put one on my open palm and make it so he has to at least put two paws on me to get the treat, one or two of those and he is happy to sit on my hand to nibble so long as I'm not looking directly at him and don't make any sudden movement, if i do then the second that happens its one or two big squeaks and he darts into the cage but he is straight back to the tube to come back out so i think hes just a bit nervous still and being startled.

Same for if i want to move any of them out to the play pen they just dive into the tunnels the second they see it and i use it as a kind of lift if they don't want to come out on to my shoulders or into my hoodie, i try to not let them see me putting my hands in the cage too much unless something needs refilling or removing.

[deguconvert]

For the most part, I don't see any issues with what you are using for treats, with the exception of the corn and peas and the rosehips. I would completely lose the corn, and be very miserly with the peas. The corn is a grain food which being high in carbohydrate is quickly turned into sugar when the body is digesting it, which is something degus struggle with processing. Degus are prone to developing diabetes, so sugar consumption is something that needs to be strictly regulated. Rosehips are also high in sugar, so need to be limited. Peas have a fairly high protein content, and while they are a vegetable protein, they are not something that could be considered a free food. I'm not suggesting that you are in any way treating them as a free food, as you've clearly indicated that they are in your treat bag. I'm just saying that of all your treat options, those need to be more limited than the rest. Maybe the apple thing too. Is it loaded with apple?

Sounds like you have a handling training plan very thought out. Do you limit how often they see you have your hands in their cage for fear of disturbing them, or is it that you want them to know their territory is respected . . . or are you nervous of their reactions?

[hjc680]

Here is the content of the apple and pansy hearts
--------------------------------------------------
Composition: Pea flour 54.1%, vegetable oil 7.4%, grass seed 6.8%, canary seed 6%, apples 5.3%, buckwheat seed 3.4%, peppermint 3.4%, parsley 1.7%, carrots 1.7%, dandelion 1.7%, nettle 1.7%, hemp seed 1.5%, linseed 1.3%, fennel seed 1.3%, viola flowers 1.3%, black cumin seed 0.9%, vegetable starch 0.9%.

Technological Additives: None stated; Sensory Additives: None stated; Nutritional Additives: None stated.

Protein 17.7%, Crude Fibre 6.6%, Crude Oils and Fat 4.4%, Crude Ash 5.2%, Moisture 11.7%
---------------------------------------------------

They are quite large so i break them up into tiny pieces, about half the size of a thumbnail, the same goes for all treats, if its bigger than half a thumbnail then it gets broken into a smaller bit, they only have little bellys and i know from personal experience if something tastes good your likely to fill yourself to bursting point! and that's something im keen to avoid as i want the main diet to be the food in the bowl and treats to be seen as rewards for coming to their name, tickles, and coming into my hand or on my shoulder for a walk around the house.

I had a steep learning curve with Pinky and Brain when i first got them they didn't move for a good three days, i assume out of fear of a new environment and the size of the cage they were in it was 90CMx45CMx45CM and i could just tell it was way too small for them, there was no space to escape if they were getting tired of each other, i bought the big cage the next day and they sprung to life, the tunnel idea and handling plan came after they were happy to run up to me with the cage doors shut, but when they were opened they ran to the back of the cage. i just wanted to create some space between me and home so i wasn't seen as a threat

all treats are given in moderation, the rosehip treats they are allowed half of one every three days, they smell sweet to me so i can imagine they aren't the best for them but you can also imagine at the same time why they are the favourite for Pinky and Brain.

I have been up most of the night again keeping Rice company, Peanut was asleep in his tunnel and not moving for anything no mater how much Rice nibbled at the bars and chirped for him. i must say Rice was very attached last night, I opened the cage door and he ran straight up to me, still doing the alarm chirp, a quick sniff and he climbed into my jacket and got comfy in the hood (still chirping right in my ear) 15-30 minutes later he calmed down and walked down my arm into the cage but this repeated three more times throughout the night, is it possible he is still missing beans or is he just craving company?

I try to limit how often the see me in the cage, water bottles are right next to the doors so i can refill them without disturbing them too much, the same for food bowls, i tend to do it when my girlfriend is looking after them in the playpen downstairs or when i can see they are having a good nap and im not likely to wake them with the door opening. I want them to know their territory is respected i wouldn't want some random person opening my door and touching my stuff and i kind of feel that they feel the same way, Pinky and brain haven't ever shown any aggression towards me so im not nervous around them, i think i got lucky and got two (for the most part) chilled out degu's.

[deguconvert]

He will definitely be missing Beans. The male female bond tends to be very strong, and her being gone will be on his mind a lot. While what I said about the memory banks of degus seeming to be wiped easily, the opposite it also true for those they share a strong bond with. When they lose a companion they have been especially close to, the loss can hit them very hard. They can pine and grieve themselves to death. For the first several years we had three males and then one died in his sleep. Complete shock! He was the leader in all things and they were a tight group. The remaining two fell into a deep mourning, and then depression, and when, two months later, they were lethargic and losing weight, I decided I must get another one or two companions to hopefully enliven them again and get them out of the funk they were in. It worked . . . more ways than I had intended it to work! . . . but I am also certain that we would have seen them die as a result of their grief had I done nothing.

I don't hear any sign of that kind of grief being present in Rice, but he is most certainly feeling loss and concern.

Have you done any face to face meetings with Rice and Peanut? Even very short 5-10 minutes? Slow is good . . . but if you are seeing distress that makes you feel worried, you might want to see how they are together, and if that will help Rice.

[moletteuk]

Welcome to the forum hjc680 I'm seeing lots of observant and considered things written by you, so I'm sure everything is going to work out

We have all kinds of generalisations in the advice we routinely give, but at the end of the day it is all about the individual when it comes to finding the best way to care for your degus, they are so personality driven and social and complex, the better you can read them, the quicker you can find good solutions.

The behaviour changes you have seen in everyone do seem to indicate that Beans may have been female. I think it's important to try to get Rice and Peanut together ASAP, but obviously this isn't something that can be rushed if they aren't up for it. Since they are very young (is that right?) and in a bit of an unusual situation with the swap and the hamster cage and them knowing each other previously, it may be worth trying a meet to see if they might be alright together quite soon. If you see any agitation at all, be prepared to keep the meeting really short.

Did you keep the original cage, the 90x45cm one? I'm just thinking it might give you options for temporary side by side periods, even for placing within the play pen.

The cage you have is good, you are right it is the biggest one easily available, you can do lots with it, extending the full shelves into half shelves is probably your best option at the moment. If your two pairs remain separate for a while, it might be worth considering squeezing in even more floor space like adding another half shelf or basement extension, but go with extending the half shelves into full first.

In my experience, some degus don't like you messing in their territory (cage) and others coudln't care less....they will let you know.

Those treats should be OK in those quantities. Have you checked our diet pages? We have lots of info on adding forage to the diet and healthy seeds.

[hjc680]

Sorry to hear about your goos im dreading the day it happens, but i know it will. its partially the reason i got the two smaller ones. i don't think Rice is grieving either just a little upset he lost his cuddle buddy.

I woke up to mass wibbling all throughout the cage they were so noisy but all kind of playing so i thought it was the best time to try a little introduction for Rice and Peanut.

I got the sand bath and an old takeaway pot (washed thoroughly in the dishwasher) filled them both with a little fresh sand and a drop of lavender and put one in the hamster cage and one in the main cage but placed so they were right next to each other, giving the impression they were in the same bath i hope. 15 minutes later after a good bath, i opened the little door to the hamster cage and took the sand from the takeaway pot and put it in the main sand bath, gave it a little mix with my finger and put it back in the main cage.

So far i have seen mounting and a little boxing, lots of bathing together, rear end sniffing, general grooming and foraging around on the floor next to each other, i went back to sleep for a little while my girlfriend took over and they have been good as gold, i think its worth seeing how they do today and as long as i don't hear or see any major irritations or aggressive chasing i will keep them together tonight. Should i change bedding for fresh bedding or mix the two together?

Hi Moletteuk, thank you, so far it seems to be going well with Rice and Peanut as i said above they are together now and doing well so far so hopefully we will see, and no unfortunately i didn't keep the original one i had a friend that wanted to convert it into an extension for her rats so i let her take it.

When Rice and Peanut have settled im going to take them and put them in the play pen so i can measure everything up and put a mini plan together i was going to try to add one more full floor to both the top and bottom then see what i had left in terms of space before adding more levels

[deguconvert]

Well, do keep an eye on them. Just because they are doing well now, doesn't mean that in a few hours time they still will be. There is the question of dominance to be settled, and they will work to do that. You could see fighting that is more involved that the chasing, butt sniffing, squealing, kicking, and boxing. For the most part, if they are loud, it is still in the realm of "safe" fighting. If it all goes quiet and they are fighting, separate them as quickly as possible. Make a point of giving them each a really good look over frequently. That means, pulling your finger FORWARD over their fur so that you can see down to the skin. If you just stroke in the direction of the fur, you will not be as successful at finding evidence of bites and scratches because the thickness of the fur disguises and hides the wounds very well. You want to have an idea as to who is getting the worst of things, and to be aware if there are complications setting in from bite wounds that need veterinary attention. Most bites heal well, but occasionally infections set in and must be treated with antibiotics, and sometimes need to be lanced. A couple of time daily is good, and you may need to look more often, depending on what you see transpiring. WAY back when, I made a point of looking every couple of hours, treating the examinations like a hand training opportunity, and offering tiny bits of treats at the same time. This helped me to keep a finger on their well being.

Something that may seem strange, but in every case that I have personally experienced, and in many on here when they have been reported and discussed, the degu that has the most bites is often the more aggressive one, and is being fended off by the other. Often the aggressor is also the contender for dominance over other degu. Much easier to tell these things when there are just two that are involved as well.

[hjc680]

They've been sleeping for the last hour taking it in turns to be the one on top, Peanut wont come on to my hand yet, he's still uncertain about the tube but the more he sees Rice using it he gets closer and closer before running away and i don't want to get off to a bad start with him by grabbing him out of his cage and trying to ruffle all his fur up, Rice i have checked and apart from the little scars he had from the scrap with his dad at the pet store there isn't any marks. To be honest i haven't seen any biting or aggressive chasing its all been rather playful, I've sat next to the cage for the entire day working and just looking into the cage every few minutes they're looking to be a great match i think.

I also created a Temporary shelf in the cage its not perfect but gives a little more space

66.media.tumblr.com/0ca1c9b473f3d806be82e0cc344207d7/tumblr_prz8o5qGa11r6e797_540.jpg

i gave it a good push all over and unless they work together and jump up and down in one spot for an hour its not coming down

[deguconvert]

Looks like you have a cooling rack beneath the log bridge? I found they made excellent temporary accessories while we had degus!

[moletteuk]

Great! - for them getting along and the extra shelf space